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Wikileaks: For Public good or National Security concern?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by damanali, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. damanali

    damanali Well-Known Member

    Are they doing the public a favor by exposing top secret information or are they causing the country more trouble by exposing some sensitive information?

    Just like this news, what does it gives us? That China is the enemy? That the US should be ready to go to war against China?

    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/afp/20101206/tap-us-diplomacy-wikileaks-australia-chi-5a1703c.html

    I think Wikileaks is causing panic and chaos.

    So what are your opinions on this Wikileaks issues?
     
  2. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    I think Wikileaks is doing an excellent job showcasing freedom of information on that net, and that your belief of "panic and chaos" is just you being an overreactive twat.

    Discuss.
     
  3. calvin_0

    calvin_0 Well-Known Member

    people will over react to anything especially if they learn stuff like "places that have territories bombed".
     
  4. msg2009

    msg2009 Romulations sexiest member

    Some things are best kept from the public and dealt with internally.
     
  5. Zydaline

    Zydaline Well-Known Member

    Ignorance is bliss.
    The more you know, the more butthurt anti-X-country threads you'll have to make.
     
  6. ace1o1

    ace1o1 Well-Known Member

    That would be a horrendous bloodbath...I don't think anyone would be left to fight unless we actually used nukes on China. I don't see any other way of fighting such a massive army...

    I really don't know too much about what Wikileaks leaked, but apparently it has the media in an uproar.
     
  7. garychencool

    garychencool Well-Known Member

    WikiLeaks is probably the most popular wissle-blowing site and I gotta say, it's interesting to look at such files that it features. Nothing about aliens or such.
     
  8. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    It's leaked operations file on US war efforts showing how corrupt the new systems are and how inept the coalition forces have been in regulating violence. The US forces in particular have been shown to act in ways they shouldn't be, including dismissing claims of police brutality by the new Iraqi security forces.

    Basically, stuff has come to light about war and politics that governments would much prefer to remain hush-hush, because it hurts their propaganda machine.
     
  9. Oteupaiecona

    Oteupaiecona Well-Known Member

    Well said.
    Well, i don't know about the "twat' part though, lol.
    People are just bitting the bait.
    Governments and Corporations don't really like when this pesky freedom of information thing affects them.
    So they start to make it sound likes it's a real danger.
    I mean, they wanted to associate the site with terrorism, for Pete's sake.
    I hear they are trying to get Assange for rape.
    But it's not really rape, it's that he wasn't wearing a condom...
    But you know, when you don't wear a condom, you might get on Interpol's most wanted list.
    Happens all the time.
     
  10. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    especially if you piss off the americans.
     
  11. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    It makes me grin when I think of the impotent rage that politicians and military commanders the world over must be feeling towards Assange.

    Then I realise that he might end up jailed or "disappeared".
     
  12. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    Would they risk that, though? he's a very public figure, if he disappeared, questions would be asked.
     
  13. darkrequiem

    darkrequiem Well-Known Member

    I doubt they would, as you said, very public.
    But Wikileaks is on thin ice, it seems.
    It has resorted to mirrors to survive, as Pay Pal has even restricted transactions.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/what-about-shutting-down-wikileaks-easier-said-than-done-as-it-turns-out/story-e6frfro0-1225967014452
     
  14. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    Car accidents, perhaps?

    Anyway, it's been made quite clear that governments around the world are attempting to curtail free speech. They're scared. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if governmental resources are behind at least some of these attacks.
     
  15. redoperator

    redoperator Well-Known Member

    Oh man is this late, I did an Essay about this a couple weeks ago. WikiLeaks needs to be stopped (even if the guy has a "poison pill") and I'll tell you why, but first some morality.

    Once I get My Bachelors Degree from my studies in Computer Information Systems, I'm hoping to get my Top Secret Clearance for a future government Job that will accepted me, but does that constitute me to take any secret information from the military and post it online?

    The answer is NO.

    That would be a breach of trust, and I like people to trust me (though I am antisocial most of the time but that's beside the point). Do you know where the Army Private who leaked info on a Lady GaGa disc is? Never going to see freedom for a long time (He's in the Army Regional Confinement Facility, Fort Knox, Fort Knox, Kentucky: where if they say 20 years, your serving the whole 20 friggin years, no time off for "good behavior", 20 = 20). They already got him for treason, and he's not seeing his family anytime soon.

    These documents are called CLASSIFIED for a reason, they're only to be unclassified when the government deems it safe to show it (or when it doesn't really matter). I'm all in for Internet Neutrality, but this is stupid, there is some information the public eye should never see and get their hands on (because when the party cat gets out of the bag, fingers will start pointing around). And this information can be used in someway as a bargaining chip for some very, very, BAD countries if they get their hands on it. And its pretty shameful that the dude who made WikiLeaks is Blackmailing any government who is going to arrest him.


    I sure as hell don't want to see my secrets be used against me. Would you like to see your secrets used against you?
     
  16. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    Well, shit.

    You're assuming that governments are good and impartial judges of what information should be released to the public. Why shouldn't we know that Iraqi troops are using unnecessarily brutal tactics? Why shouldn't we know that US forces have fired recklessly at civilians? Information should be free unless deemed damaging to the essential operations of an organisation. It shouldn't be "unsafe until we can prove it's safe". Too much is kept from the public. Information we should have free access to is stifled.

    There is no strategic advantage, no "bargaining chip" to be gained from having access to the files leaked so far. They're casualty reports, data on past operations, diplomatic cables. Either the whistleblowers or Assange have gone through the information and only released that which is actually safe or pertinent. The thing is, this is at odds with many governments, who'd much prefer to keep the general populace entirely in the dark about such things. Furthermore, I fail to see how this information could be used as a bargaining chip if the entire world has access to it.

    As for the blackmailing claim, I want a source. A reliable one at that.

    EDIT: On further reading I've heard about the AES. That's more of a "if this website is shut down" contingency for accessing the data, rather than a "stop trying to arrest me or I give out the key".
     
  17. redoperator

    redoperator Well-Known Member

    I didn't say that, stop making an "ass out of u and me", I'm saying that there is information out there that can cause people to point fingers at anyone who works in the government, and although it might not be right it's sure as hell needed to keep everybody in line for the most part. "What is Right isn't always needed, what is needed isn't always right" (I made that line up and I live by it)

    lets do some roleplaying,If you were the government would you try to the best of your abilities to prevent people from knowing your secrets? because I would, the last thing I would want is my secrets in the street. Also, during war time, one must do anything to get information being brutal is the name of the game because its WAR, not tea time with Abdul and Ahmashariff, One reason the US killed civilians is because our Enemies do not play by the Geneva Conventions, and fired upon Troops while in building with civilians (have you thought of that?) that is why they are called "Unlawful Combatants" and should not fall under the Articles of Geneva Conventions.

     
  18. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    You didn't need to say it, it was implied by:
    Why bring that up unless you have complete faith in your government to decide what is inappropriate for public viewing? Every government hides things they shouldn't. My own country's government hid the details of the governmental credit card spending of MPs until there was sufficient public pressure for it to capitulate, despite that fact that it should have been publicly available for access in the first place. Now imagine if there wasn't any of this pressure. Nobody would know that MPs were abusing their privileges and costing the taxpayer millions of dollars a year. Such is the deal with the war crimes and various issues that have come to light in the Iraq and the Afghani campaigns. Nobody would have known, nobody would have had the motivation to investigate.

    No. This is wrong. People shouldn't be "kept in line" by these rich cocksuckers who don't give a fuck about anyone other than themselves.

    That doesn't make any sense. Mind explaining?

    I'll bite.

    This is broken. A single person is not a government and cannot be analogous to a government. I don't have responsibilities to 350 million people, nor do my secrets affect countless lives overseas. Some of this data is serious. The people of the involved governments do have a right to greater transparency in governmental activities. Furthermore, you're missing the point that some of these "secrets" don't need to be, and that some of them definitely shouldn't be.


    Nice work using one possible scenario to support your flimsy argument. Might I direct your attention to this article and the accompanying video? Two Reuters journalists and a dozen civilians were killed because US forces had itchy trigger fingers. Not terrorists breaking the Geneva Convention. Once again, Wikileaks was instrumental in releasing this footage. There have been many more of these types of incidents detailed in the leaked files, showing gross misconduct within occupying forces. This isn't something that should be kept secret. It's an incident just as bad as a suicide bomber's explosion.

    Furthermore, your bringing up of the Geneva Convention was unnecessary. The fact that terrorists are unlawful combatants does not excuse the murder of, nor misconduct such as torture or unlawful incarceration on, civilians.

    If you think world politics works like the schoolyard, good luck on getting that Top Secret clearance, dude. Realistically there'd still be plenty of private enterprise aid.

    Source noted, but I might need to set the record straight here. This isn't blackmail. This data will be leaked, one way or the other. If something happens to Assange, the password will be released so that the information will still get out. If it doesn't, he'll end up leaking it on the site over a period of time anyway.

    I'm going to have to give you a 6/10 on the Fox News thing by the way, you got me angry for a second there.

    Of course they want to arrest him. Hell, half the government agencies probably want him dead and in the ground. I'd prefer to shake his hand, ask what the fuck he was doing by releasing diplomatic cables, then kick you in the sack.
     
  19. redoperator

    redoperator Well-Known Member

    Fine, you win. I won't try to preach my point on this anymore. I agree with msg and damanali (and I think they're cool)
    You can't please everyone, a thousand soldiers die and no one calls, one civilian dies and the world cries out (and thats not cool)
    Oh and Top Secret Clearance is how truthful you can be, that's it. (most of my family has those)
    I really don't give a rats ass about information, its all forgotten in time: I favor order (by whatever means necessary), you favor freedom (under the same clause).
    [I feel like I should make a video game about this]

    "What is Right isn't always needed, what is needed isn't always right" it should be pretty self explanatory (just because one is able to do what he/she feels is right, it isn't always in the best interest of the greater good, which may call for acts of what people might deem evil and bad)
     
  20. Suiseiseki

    Suiseiseki Well-Known Member

    Alright then, I appreciate that you stood for your viewpoint.

    With that in mind, I favor the freedom of information we deserve, not the freedom we get. It's not total - I agree that there are some things that need to stay private (like some of those diplomatic cables), but when an invasion force routinely covers up crimes perpetrated by a security force they helped establish, or fires on journalists on spurious grounds, I don't see why that should stay private.