THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)+ A discussion/Debate about a perfect FF

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

FF 7 is great but I do not think its visual aged very well.
FF 6, though 2d, still looks the same to me.
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WoW is subscription-based MMO and it has 11 million active subscribers, not to mention total lifetime sales. It has 92% Metacritic. It has not dead yet even after 5 years. That's way more impressive than FF7.
By your logic WoW is the best game ever but in reality, no game, however good it is, can claim to be the absolute best.
Now this thread is intended to be a debate about what is subjectively the best FF.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Ah, something I can debate.
I disagree, when the score is made up of thousands of gamers votes such as gamefaq's, it gives a GOOD INDICATION of the games quality. And the more people that vote the more accurate the result.
Also thats partly a reason why I said best programming or games that revolutionized RPG's. I don't know...I'm sure theres plenty of PROPER reasons if you look for them.
But those are facts you can debate over. I'm saying opinions can't be properly debated without factual evidence. You can't reach a conclusion otherwise so its not a true debate its just a list of your favourite FF.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Excluding the haters who haven't played the games and trolls, right?

As I said, scores are not indicative of a game's quality. Why? Because actually liking and enjoying a game is subjective (ie I hate MW2 while the general consensus is that the game is great). What you said "when the score is made up of thousands of gamers votes such as gamefaq's", this is a general consensus. A general consensus is an opinion or view that is generally shared. It is not fact, it is opinions. Nor is it a good indicator of how much you'll enjoy the game versus the reviewer(s).

Facts are something that cannot be disputed, facts are not subjective, facts are concrete. General consensus is not that.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

If you suggest using review scores as facts to support an argument, don't complain just because the "facts" don't lead to your conclusion.

"Best programming"? As I and other programmers will tell you, that's not something quantifiable. Certain approaches may be more appropriate than others for given situations, but there is no "best". The coding may or may not conform to good practice, but we have any way of knowing.

There's no such thing as "revolutionary", there are only popular gimmicks. "Oh, game X did Y and sold Z amount, clearly we should do the same and hope for similar sales". Of course, that's just a matter of perspective, and obviously opinion has no place in a debate, right?

1: The more sales a game has, the more people like it
2: FF7 sold the most copies
C: Therefore FF7 is the best as it is liked by the most people

There are so many problems here, I don't know where to start. Firstly, the first premise is wholly unjustified. One must take into account other factors such as marketing, hype or piracy. Besides that, most people buy games before they play them; they can't know that they'll like a game before they buy it, they can only hope. To claim otherwise (as your argument implies) is a historian's fallacy.

Secondly, how do you account for underrated games which sold poorly despite being unanimously proclaimed to be good? Or overrated games which sell far better than their true quality should allow? The existence of these games - no, even just the existence of my dissenting opinion that these games exist - contradicts your claim that sale numbers are appropriate facts to base an argument on.

Thirdly, even assuming your argument is correct, does it not ultimately rely on personal preference, despite your claims that debates should consist purely of facts?

These "facts" mean infinitely less to me than my own personal preferences. I'm sure most people would agree with me.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

7

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

14

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

!!!

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

14 is beautiful.
Oh the visual... ;D

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Exactly.
So get some facts on why you think your choice is best, thats what im trying to say.

Like I said, it was just an example.
In my opinion 7 is best but if someone put forward a great case for 1 and I couldn't find faults in the evidence then I would have to concede.

Like I said, just an example of trying to find facts. I'm no programmer, I wouldn't know.

No such thing as revolutionary? What about FF1? That had things we haven't seen before and tons of games have copied it.
Opinions do have a place on debates but can easily be dismissed by facts.

Facts mean more than opinion, you cant argue with them.

And 7 will always be my favourite but that doesn't mean its the best.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Contradiction.

Dragon Warrior/Quest did everything FF1 did before FF1 came out. FF1 is not 'revolutionary', it was just a game that copied the success from DW/DQ.

And you have presented none.

A debate with just 'facts' is not a debate, it should be an agreement. Facts cannot be changed, meanwhile opinions are able to change, as well as perspective. A debate is a clash of opinions, depending on who provides a stronger support for their argument (ie opinion) means the stronger and more justified the opinion or view is (while being still fair). This means saying '_____ is the best' with no support is not a strong argument. Normally whoever provides the stronger argument wins the case in terms of a court/debate setting.

Also without realizing it, I basically just rewrote Troubles/Nathan's post.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Waiting for PS3 version =P How does it play?

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

It plays like this.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

It's pretty much complete shit dude, don't even bother.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Facts can only lead to one valid conclusion. As there is more than one valid conclusion for this topic, logically it can't be based on facts.

Raising the goalpost, mate.

Yeah, you can call it revolutionary and I can call it a popular gimmick. That's dissenting opinion for you. What's "revolutionary" therefore isn't factual.

Hence facts lead to only one conclusion, which precludes any true debate from occurring.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

A poorly chosen word, my point still stands, opinions can be easily dismissed by facts.

By revolutionize I mean, brought things never seen before that have been copied ever since and changed gaming/RPG's for good.
The same as Sun Tzu's book revolutionized warefare.
If that was DQ and not FF then I can't argue with that fact.

I never said I did.

Thats exactly what im saying, evidence=support for your argument.
So far there has been no support just opinion.
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There can only be one conclusion if we are looking for THE best FF and not the best few.

Yes, debating properly. Not just another opinion.

It doesn't stop the debating, there are arguments for and against all games.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Hey guys, shut the fuck up and let me tell you what the best FF is...

7.

It's not just an opinion of mine, its fucking fact. Prove me wrong you stupid fucking annoying beautiful people.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

The PS3 version is delayed due to limited memory. They need to make some adjustment.
It's a no-wonder as the PC version itself has a pretty steep system requirement.
http://www.finalfantasyunion.com/news/ffxiv-ps3-technical-difficulties-due-to-memory--1178.html

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

Yeah, I tried the tests and didn't do too well >_>

Oh well, there's always DC Universe Online, which is better than Final Fantasy /troll

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

I can't remember if I said it before, but FFVi is the best for me. It's also highly regarded(by professionals and not just fanboys) as the best FF yet. Of course, the best depends on your opinion and how much of a dumb fuck you are.

 

Re: THE BEST FINAL FANTASY (ALL INCLUDED)

That counts as one conclusion.

Um, what? No, you can't dismiss the very evidence you suggested using just because it doesn't suit you. That's not "debating properly" at all.