nintendo admits why they sucked at 2009

nintendo sells hardware just as how microsoft and sony sells hardware. to sell hardware is by selling software. ask me, why sell hardware to a niche when you can get a bigger portion.

here is an example. as a game company, you have 1 million dollars to make a game to sell hardware. you can make a niche game or a game that will make a broader appeal for everyone. if you make a niche game, you're only going to get that percentage of the niche to buy your hardware, but if you make a broader game that appeals to everyone, you're getting more then just the niche but every other people. so the question isn't that nintendo has left the hardcore gamers because nintendo needs to sell hardware at the widest range at minimizing cost while maximizing the end result.

however, if we flip things around, the question should be why has third parties left the hardcore on the wii?! that should be a bigger question. clearly there is a market there because nintendo has statistics based on previous generations, such as with games like resident evil 4 and gamecube games like eternal darkness. yet third parties have neglected this and are simply making games for the 360/ps3.

nintendo is doing everything they need to do to sell hardware through software, as mentioned above, so nintendo didn't left the hardcore niche. but the third party hardcore companies have left the hardcore, not nintendo leaving the hardcore. i myself have said over and over again that i would have liked a resident evil 5 for wii after playing resident evil 4 on the wii, but capcom left gamers, such as myself and others, and instead made a rail shooter instead. did i left the wii or did the third party ditched me as a gamer. the answer is obvious, nintendo ditched the hardcore. makes sense. capcom made street figthter 4 on iphone as opposed to the wii. i bought a ps3 simply to play resident evil 5 and street fighter 4, and i bought the wii before the ps3. did i left the wii as a gamer or did capcom left me as a gamer. it's obvious again, nintendo left the gamer.

 

Nintendo made a system which made it very hard to develop hardcore games on. Low processing speeds, limited disk space, controllers which tire out the player with extended use are all problems when developing hardcore games for a system.

 

i've played resident evil 4 wii for long hours and it never bothered me. i've played it like 4+ hours once [it didn't bothered me].

the 360 is on a dvd, remember, so not only is the wii on limited disc space, but the 360 as well. even worse, the 360 are using higher resolution graphics, which is wasting the disc space.

the iphone is limited in tech but it's not stopping companies like capcom from making street fighter 4 or making an unreal engine 3 for the iphone. so don't mention technicality any more because there are two things that can disprove this, street fighter 4 and the unreal engine 3. two things that are used on the 360/ps3 but is capable of being run on the iphone, which has similar or so tech as the wii. even worse is that there are games on the psp being made as opposed to the wii and there is no reason to make psp games knowing that the market for it is small, yet it is consistantly being made and there is a small market, such as Soul Calibur: Broken Destiny or dante's inferno for the psp.

you're talking again as to what xelados was referring to, that the game is based on technicality and not the main factor.

btw, who says the game has to use the motion controllers?! just because the wii uses the motion controller doesn't mean you have to use it. some of the best games on the wii aren't motion control based, such as new mario wii.

 

You have to admit though, Nintendo has major storage medium issues...
A generation back, we have GC discs, which were "cool" at the time, but really limited the amount of data that goes on it.
The PS2 came out utilizing 4.7 GB discs, Xbox followed suit. GC still has the crappy 1.35 GB discs.

The PS3 uses Blu-Ray, X360 uses 8.5 GB discs, and what does the Wii generally use? 4.7 GB discs. There are only a few games that are on 8.5 GB discs, Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Metroid Prime Trilogy. I would know because I tried downloading both, although I did find a SSBB 4.7 GB edition with the Subspace Emissary ripped out. hehe

As far as portables go, the NDS still uses cartridges, which has been stated before costs them more money to produce the damn cartridge than it would cost them to make something along the lines of a UMD. This limits them on the amount of space they can use as well.

Nintendo should be designing games to fit a dual layer DVD instead of these casual games that you can complete in roughly 6 hours or less. Granted, there are a few games that will take you 50+ just to see the ending credits, but more than a majority of the games are just cookie-cutter games churned out with little effort (or care) involved. I can pretty much say the same for the DS as well.

Yeah, the mature (not necessarily hardcore) games don't do as well on the Wii because, well, they're much better on the other consoles. Take Cod MW Reflex for example. Great game, a little late to the battlefield, and outperformed in ALL aspects on the Big Brother consoles. Another reason why mature games don't fare well is because the mature audience has a 360 or PS3, not a Wii, and if they do have a Wii, they're not going to rush out and buy MadWorld or No More Heroes (2) for a console that they barely ever play...

If Nintendo wants to revive the mature audience, give us a proper GTA title (not Bully, which is a PS2 port with extras), a respectable driving game not named Need for Speed Not Street Enough to be Enjoyable, God of War or something similar (hell, even Dante's Inferno would have sufficed), oh, and thank GOD we are getting Monster Hunter Tri. I've got online capabilities with hardly any ONLINE going on. CoD and PBR can only last so long...I want something that I can stay connected to until I decide to turn off the system. No joining matches, no matchmaking, just get online, see people move around, and kill stuff. Matchmaking should not happen. It should already be searching before your last match is over. Just when you're about to end the match, it should be looking for another and be ready by the time you get out of the 2 or 3 screens and back to the menu. Even for PBR, it should have 4 possible matches, one for singles, one for doubles, and a third/fourth (one of each type) in case one of the two drop.

Most of the high-end graphic games suffer on the Wii, not because of their poor design, but because of the limitations of the system. And yet, the games get the blame when it is purely the system's fault.

 

Well myself and several others I know get horrible cramps after a while of using the nun-chuck controller(1-2hours).

[quote author=ultra]the 360 is on a dvd, remember, so not only is the wii on limited disc space, but the 360 as well. even worse, the 360 are using higher resolution graphics, which is wasting the disc space.
[/quote]

Many games on the 360 are just upscaled by the graphics card in it, so the graphics don't take that much more space on the disk. I was also labouring under the impression that the Wii did not support dual layer DVDs which I have just noticed that they do now.

[quote author=ultra]the iphone is limited in tech but it's not stopping companies like capcom from making street fighter 4 or making an unreal engine 3 for the iphone. so don't mention technicality any more because there are two things that can disprove this, street fighter 4 and the unreal engine 3. two things that are used on the 360/ps3 but is capable of being run on the iphone, which has similar or so tech as the wii. [/quote]

Street fighter 4 isn't a very big/complicated game. Also the Unreal Engine 3 can be released on the iPhone as the iPhone has a more powerful graphics card than that of the Wii. Also, games made with the UE3 on the iPhone are going to be limited as a lot of processing power is going to go to the engine.

[quote author=ultra]even worse is that there are games on the psp being made as opposed to the wii and there is no reason to make psp games knowing that the market for it is small, yet it is consistantly being made and there is a small market, such as Soul Calibur: Broken Destiny or dante's inferno for the psp. [/quote]

So they should just abandon all the PSP gamers out there? You can't really compare handhelds to consoles anyway as they compliment different types of games.

[quote author=ultra]you're talking again as to what xelados was referring to, that the game is based on technicality and not the main factor. [/quote]
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here.

[quote author=ultra]btw, who says the game has to use the motion controllers?! just because the wii uses the motion controller doesn't mean you have to use it. some of the best games on the wii aren't motion control based, such as new mario wii.
[/quote]
Why develop for the Wii at all if you don't use the motion controls? All you have then is a low-powered, last gen system with poorly designed controllers.

 

Insane, I have to say wat to some of your post.

There's no support in saying that UMDs cost less than DS Cartridges, combined with that UMDs is a stupid proprietary format that Sony decided to push and ultimately blew up in their face in terms of movies and even games. Cartridges have virtually no load times and because of it, the battery lasts longer than a PSP would. It's still the same where having moving parts in a handheld uses a lot more battery life than just having cartridges.

Also in terms of DVD storage, the Xbox has it somewhat in the right. As of now we don't need the space that a Bluray provide. Considering that compression is virtually unnoticeable versus it's BluRay counterpart. PS3's BluRay space is just an excuse to brag since it can hold uncompressed audio and textures which offer virtually nothing compared to compressed audio and textures. Oh, but what looks better to the consumer to buy (not in terms of the game, but in terms of marketing)? Uncompressed. I can see BluRay being more viable in the next generations when we probably need it's space, but as of now, we don't need it.

Also FFXIII has 4 discs on the 360 due to it being a PS3 to 360 port and it's FMVs (which take up a lot of space).

 

dante's inferno could be on the wii. it's on the psp and if it's done on the psp, then it can be done on the wii. dante's inferno is nothing more then god of war 1 and god of war 2. knowing the ps2 tech conditions, the wii is equal and more then enough to handle it. yet it's not on the wii. i can't answer the question of why it's not on the wii, only the ceo of electronic arts can answer that question as well as the developers. but i can speculate that it is because third party do not like nintendo. why bother making dante's inferno for the psp when you can try for a bigger share, the wii? i thought it was logical, but i guess some people are more stupider then others.

what was awkward was the release of rock band 2 for the wii. what the hell were they thinking of releasing the game a day before christmas?! there was enough data to show that the wii was selling these music games more then the 360/ps3. yet it was decided to push all efforts for the biggest population of gamers last and push for more effort for the smaller population. i do not get it. even worse is that investers aren't pushing for these companies to make games on the wii.

it's never the system's fault but the developers fault. an entertainer is to give a performance, either people show up or they don't. if they don't show up then the entertainer sucks. if people show up, then the entertainers good. if people leave, then the entertainer sucks. if people stay then the entertainers good. in the end, it's how the entertainer entertains the people. it's the same idea with games. if people buy the games, then the game is good. if people don't buy them then it sucks. the game is the entertainer and the player is the audience.

the gamecube was superior then the ps2 and more stable then the xbox [no red ring of death on the gamecube]. yet third party developers are pushing and making games for the other two consoles. even worse, third party say the wii has piracy problems then the 360/ps3. the ps2 and xbox had more piracy problems then the gamecube and yet again, more push for development by third parties. and you know what, no third parties were complaining about the piracy on the ps2 or xbox. on the wii, we have the total opposite. why?! i don't know, but it all says that third party don't like nintendo. now we have the wii is inferior then the ps3/360, yet there is more push for the powerful consoles then the inferior console. it's the total opposite from the last generation where not only was the ps2 inferior but had more audiences, just as how it is with the wii. it only shows that third party dislike nintendo. and it is not that nintendo have abandoned the hardcore or whatever else you like to say about nintendo abandoning whoever, but rather the third party developers have abandoned you.

resident evil 4 is a very interesting story is it not?! it was made and way superior on the gamecube. but ironically, it did not stop capcom to make it for the ps2 even though it would be inferior then the gamecube and no one, who played the ps2 version, complained about it's inferiority. what is funny today is that we don't see the same thing for resident evil 5. how funny!

 

Entertainer =/= video games, totally irrelevant things. A musician could sound good on an album, but sound terrible live. They could have a bad night, or the entertainer could not show up, or pass out on stage or something. Video games don't have these variables.
Quality =/= sales, as I've told you many times before.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. The GC is more powerful than the PS2, and the Original Xbox was more powerful than both. Stable? The Original Xbox had no Red Ring Of Death (first Xbox =/= 360, good job showcasing what you know), it was just as reliable as the GC (the PS2 was the one with hardware problems). The Wii does have a piracy problem, all the piracy is done by software like the PSP, not like hardware like the PS3 or 360 (I consider changing the firmware on the Drive hardware so BLAH). Piracy on the PS2, Original Xbox and Gamecube were a lot less numerous than the Wii, since the Wii is extremely easy to pirate on. There's no numbers to go on, but that's what I'm assuming.

And really, I haven't heard anything on devs blaming piracy on the Wii, if you've shown support, then I could believe you.

Or it could be third parties are abandoning Nintendo since they all still make games. Why bother concentrate making a 'mature' game on the Wii that won't sell as opposed to making the SAME game, making it look better, and putting it on the 360/PS3 and having it sell more?

The Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, yes. But it wasn't like the gap between this gen and last gen. You're highly exaggerating this ultra, as well as you keep repeating that Quality equals the number of sales which I disprove everytime you bring it up.

The PS3 and 360 are miles away of the Wii in terms of specs, while the Gamecube and PS2 weren't too far away.

Why make a mature game on the Wii that won't sell? From the numbers of sales from good mature games on the Wii, they don't sell. Is it too much to say that a mature game won't sell on the Wii?

And just because I like to post this and ultra just shuts right up.

Everytime I respond to you ultra, I have this undying urge to either strangle you or call you the biggest idiot fanboy on the face of the earth. All everyone's posts die in vain when you come in contact with them, it's a massacre.

 

here is the red ring of death on the xbox 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbx-WsICem8
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/system_failure.htm

remember, it's not only the wii that can be modded through software. the xbox 1 could also be modded with software. but developers were still pushing games for it. http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?thread_id=28592
then you have usb/memory card softmod for the ps2

i'm glad someone brought up that the iphone has better graphics because sooner or later that would have come up. here, the iphone is better then the wii, http://kotaku.com/5509546/resident-evil-4-ipad-screens/gallery/2

i'm also glad you brought up that the wii is miles away from the 360/ps3 when we have a video of dead space running on the xbox 1. remember that video?! yes, it is miles away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOBsih6Os0 [i like the comment by modlybubbles].

if sales don't determine quality, then what determines quality?

i like this comment, "The PS3 and 360 are miles away of the Wii in terms of specs, while the Gamecube and PS2 weren't too far away." natewlie
it goes back to xelados's comment.

 

I said something along the lines of a UMD, not a UMD. Discs are cheaper to make than cartridges. Just like with my online concept, have the disc start loading the next section, BEFORE you reach the next section. You're just about to finish off the boss for this level, start loading the next level, boss is dead, next level is magically already loaded and the cycle continues. I also said somewhere else on the forum that I would gladly sacrifice battery life for extra power (meaning graphics, the loading system I just described, whatever else makes the games better). And since these portables have access to an infinite power supply, why not go all out? That's like turning on Infinite Nitrous, but also having Nitrous set at conservative levels. And yeah, both systems have conservative settings and whatnot, play on power savers...

FFXIII finally used the principle that I've been talking about for years now. Use up as much space as possible (while being sensible) on the medium that you are given. Design your game to fill that disc or cartridge to the max. There shouldn't be a single 4.7 GB disc with 3.5 GB of padding. Muramasa TDB is a good game, takes up about 700 MB and received B, B+ish scores. Can you imagine if they added 3.5 GB of more stuff? More levels, more items, weapons, characters, enemies (I'm getting sick of playing games that have 90 different versions of the same enemy), music, voice acting, extras and whatever else you can fit on there? And that's just hitting 4.7 GB. Can you imagine if they filled 8.5 GB full of all of the things I just mentioned, almost to the point where they're contemplating on cutting a few things here and there just to make it fit on one disc? Every movie seems to be that way as far as how long the movie is (and overall momentum), why can't every game be that way too? I wouldn't care if videogame prices all uniformly went up if that were the case, at least I'd know the quality and effort was there, and the games would be worth my money.

FFXIII probably could have done away with the 3 discs of cutscene sequences (or whatever) and added even more content to the game as far as gameplay goes. Cutscenes are great, but come on, let's not be wasteful. You're given a Blu-Ray disc, so use all of it. What happened to the Final Fantasies that were so immersive that it required 3 or 4 discs? Call me insane, but a 4 Blu-Ray disc game would not only have an EPIC stamp of approval, but worth every single penny of my money, even if it is $120. That game would probably last me an entire generation. Tack on time travel, butterfly-effects, as well as open-ended choices, alternate realities, Force powers, the possibilities are endless, that is unless you end the universe.

And I still stand by my mature-game revival. One game won't cut it. We need a TON to even make a dent. If Nintendo wants to keep the "system for everyone" idea, then include EVERYONE, and mature games is where they lack. If a game developer doesn't want to develop games for the Wii, then that's where Nintendo needs to cut some strings or put an offer on the table that they can't refuse. I blasted Square-Enix for going multiplatform on the 360 for FFXIII, but logically, this reaches out to a broader userbase to buy their game. If a game developer creates their games to play on all systems, you'll be reaching out to the largest userbase possible.

MadWorld, a CoD that's a game behind, No More Heroes 1&2, Dead Space Extraction isn't enough to revive the genre. We need more than just that. And no, putting Mario or Zelda, or any Nintendo character in a darker themed game doesn't cut it. That's like putting Disney characters in with Final Fantasy. It's still Disney characters no matter which way you look at it.

 

Note that the person is using a modded Xbox. The original Xbox was no more unreliable than the Gamecube. The PS2, as Natewlie said, was the unreliable console of the last generation.

[quote author=ultra]remember, it's not only the wii that can be modded through software. the xbox 1 could also be modded with software. but developers were still pushing games for it. http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?thread_id=28592
then you have usb/memory card softmod for the ps2[/quote]

The fact that you're still comparing the Wii to last gen consoles just proves what a useless console it is.

[quote author=ultra]i'm glad someone brought up that the iphone has better graphics because sooner or later that would have come up. here, the iphone is better then the wii, http://kotaku.com/5509546/resident-evil-4-ipad-screens/gallery/2
[/quote]

your point?

[quote author=ultra]i'm also glad you brought up that the wii is miles away from the 360/ps3 when we have a video of dead space running on the xbox 1. remember that video?! yes, it is miles away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOBsih6Os0 [i like the comment by modlybubbles].[/quote]

So, the Wii is an overpriced piece of clever marketing then? Thank you.

[quote author=ultra]if sales don't determine quality, then what determines quality?[/quote]

There are so many names I would like to call you right now...
Sales determine the effectiveness of the marketing of the product. No more, no less. Example: the Betamax was demonstrably better than VHS, yet VHS had the better marketing campaign, as a result Betamax died out. You seem to be saying "10 million consumers can't be wrong." Of course they can, consumers are idiots.

[quote author=ultra]i like this comment, "The PS3 and 360 are miles away of the Wii in terms of specs, while the Gamecube and PS2 weren't too far away." natewlie
it goes back to xelados's comment.
[/quote]

WHAT COMMENT? Quote it, or at least tell us what it is.

 

I would also like to know which quotes of mine you're hiding behind to justify whatever logic you have built up. If you can't support your stance with your own words you shouldn't even bother.

 

I'm not even gonna bother here, all i can say is...I thought you were on nintendo's side ultra?

[me=hYpNoS]leaves[/me]

 

you don't even know?! wtf?!

 

The Xbox 1 was so reliable I've never heard of the Red Ring Of Death EVER until I came to talk to you. But I do know many people who have had 2 or 3 broken PS2's. Which is about the same amount as broken 360s from the people I know. Basing it on that, there was little cases of Red Rings on the original Xbox.

What's more easier? Getting a USB key, Action Replay or whatever else you need to soft mod an Xbox, or having a SD card to mod your Wii?

Yay for judging graphics by a ridiculously dark video with very low quality!

I'm done with not insulting you. Are you an idiot, seriously?

Now that you brought up xelados with me, what comment? If you want people to understand you, TELL US HIS COMMENT.

 

ultra PMed me with a little clarification:

And my reply, which I felt relevant enough to post here as well:

Yeah, I saw the iPhone screens and wondered how anyone could say it looked better than even the GameCube version; the models are gross and it lacks any environmental effects such as fog and advanced lighting.

As far as "the problem", I think it's a bit more complex than we may think. One of the requirements of making a "mature" game is raw processing ability. Most mature games need high levels of detail to appeal to the target audience. They also tend to require either complicated engines or vast settings. Compared to the processing power of the 360 and the PS3, the Wii cannot keep up. Mature gamers have been spoiled by the graphics they offer, so when they see a mature game on the Wii, they judge it solely on its graphics.

The developer problem is that most developers who develop for the Wii simply don't try. Nintendo, Capcom, Konami, Treasure, and a few other 3rd parties are the only ones who have even attempted to push the system. Thanks to companies like Activision and Codemasters (who did little more for games than port their PS2 versions and add waggle), the image of the Wii has been marred and people wrongly consider it a last generation console, when in fact it's nearly twice the power of the original Xbox.

So the problem is A) The demographic for mature games on Nintendo consoles practically doesn't exist, B) most Wii developers are lazy as hell, and C) Developers who are used to working with the 360 and PS3 feel limited by the Wii's capabilities so they don't savor the idea of working on it.

 

[me=hYpNoS]sadly returns[/me]

The wii I guess is cheaper to make games on, hence why alot of kiddy shovel ware is on it, hay I'm not complaining, even though I chosen the ps3 as my currently played console, I'm still waiting on no more heros 2, metroid another M and the conduit 2.


I may like violence and fancy graphics, but not if there are issues with the game/all it has.


Or just incomplete-IF GOD OF WAR 3 GLITCHES THEN WHAT'S THE POINT IN TAKING SO LONG MAKING IT!


...I can live on mario based games if I need on an underpowered console, I just wanted to experience mgs4 and it went on from there.

 

nintendo are doing badly because the wii is crap
once everyone got over the fancy controllers they saw it for what it is, they bought something better. yes it brought us something new and innovative and its great fun, for 10 mins. then the quality of the games come through and you turn on your ps3 instaed. if the wii had normal controllers it wouldnt sell at all
mine hasnt been touched since january and probably wont until my mates come round for a beer

 

the two developments on the iphone, street fighter 4 and the unreal engine 3 shows that the wii isn't technically problematic as everyone have thought it was. the resident evil 4 iphone shows that the iphone is limited in it's tech, it's a portable device and it'll always be limited. but regardless of that technical limitation, it hasn't stopped these developers from making any games on them. it shows that they don't like nintendo. i don't know why. ask yourself, why would capcom make street fighter 4 on the iphone if there are already a huge game market on the wii? i've already said over and over again [and other people from other sites as well, you can check out the comments on capcoms website], that it would have been great for a street fighter 4 as well as resident evil 5 on the wii. yet again and again, developers deny gamers on the wii these games. people say nintendo abandoned the hardcore? well, capcom surely shows that they have abandoned the hardcore. remember when ea said they were releasing dead space for wii and people thought of resident evil 4 clone in space [remember the comment on the dead space xbox 1 video made by moldybubbles]? then wii gamers are given a "first person guided game". the question is, who's fault is it to deny wii gamers the type of games they want, ea or nintendo? i could tell you that moldybubbles didn't even bother with dead space extraction, because it's crap.

oh yeah, if the dead space xbox 1 prototype video is too dark, here is a game that is similar to that game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRVLKA6-Sug. i never played it myself because i don't particularly like the type of game it is, but i've heard many good things about it. it didn't seem to be a problem. i love this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsiVQbZSN0.

people say there is no mature audience on the nintendo console, well how do you explain sales of resident evil 1 remake, resident evil zero, resident evil 4 and resident evil 4 wii? all the resident evil games on the nintendo console sold over a million. even worse, the gamecube was the last console last generation and resident evil 1 remake, resident evil zero and resident evil 4 all sold over a million copies on a console of around 22 million. truly it shows mature games don't particularly sell well on a nintendo console.

there is still no indication as to what determines quality.

 

Last I heard the reason Street Fighter was not released for the Wii was because Nintendo refused to let Capcom publish their game on the Wii unless they signed an exclusivity deal.