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Is a resource based economy the answer to famine and a better future?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by YuL, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. YuL

    YuL Active Member

    According to a lot of people,things aren't going so great in the world, and it seems everything just keep going downhill. I'm talking about famine, poverty, natural disasters, and the lack of balance in resource distribution (a huge % of the world resource is shared by a handful of individual while more than half the earth population is starving.)

    The Venus project, created by Jacques Fresco, suggest a world economy where money doesn't exist, and where we take for account ALL of the planet's ressource, computerize it, and distribute it to every citizen equally.
    In a ressource based economy, humanity would deploy maximum power to create nearly infinite clean source of energy solutions, such as geothermal, solar and underwater turbine.

    Please do pay the web site a visit http://www.thevenusproject.com as well as the Zeitgeist movement free movie downloads here www.zeitgeistmovie.com for ample informations.

    These changes are not going to happen tomorow, and it implies that humanity forgets and eliminate a monetary systems that have existed for thousands of years.
    But with that aside, I'd like to hear from the people if they think a system such as this would be possible in the long run, if it was to happen.
  2. Natewlie

    Natewlie A bag of tricks

    The idea's good on paper, but that's assuming ever single person and country is beside and for the idea, which isn't going to happen. It's like marxism or socialism, it's a good idea in paper but it either hasn't been used correctly, and the ideas have been stripped away from it. Also with the dawn of tyrannic leaders in the field of both marxism and socialism, it also creates a problem. We all know some countries have a problem with any type of socialistic problem (US).

    Also to take away the monetary system that we have in place now, there's going to be a lot of resistance to that since all the wealthy people still want their power. Without money, there's no power.

    To take into account that if it's about to be set in place, people are going to have to work for this cause, it's going to take in jobs, and employment and stuff. People aren't going to work for charity (well not everyone), it might just be my pessimism coming out but people aren't THAT charitable.

    Who knows if it'd work in the long run, as we don't have these resource system in place.

    The thing is, is that with these utopian ideals, you're always going to eventually confront some type of resistance to it. Which probably will happen with this sort of thing.

    I'm a bit confused as to what replacing monetary system with a resource based system, as it probably won't do much but replace our money with resources. Meaning that we don't hold power over others? As in there's no social classes? ARRRR COMMIES.

    I haven't had the chance to watch the Zeitgeist movie, as I don't have the attention span to watch it (seriously, it's long) and they don't have the stream on the site anymore.

    But just looking at this, it seems like Jacques Fresco is a little too optimistic about the whole world. All of this will work, but that means that the WHOLE world will have to work in unity, I highly doubt that'll ever happen. There's wars, and conflicts between people that will never be resolved sadly, this plan almost involves world peace to come into effect.

    That's just my view, I'd like for the idea to happen. But for now, it's a utopian fantasy.

    Reminds me of Wall-E. :3
  3. timbizcut

    timbizcut Well-Known Member

    Some Science-Fiction writers refer to this age as "The Age of Scarcity" and postulate that whilst we deal with finite resources, wars, poverty etcetera, will continue.

    I agree with Natewlie, it sounds like a bit like Socialism. I have spent most of my working life in factories and you meet a really broad range of people with very diverse backgrounds both politically and socially. I remember a Chinese guy telling me why Communism would never work. He was part of a farm collective and part of his job was to gather the other workers in the morning. This, he explained, was where Socialism fell down. "I would go to pick someone up, to come to work" (this next part is a direct quote)"I can't work today, my arse is sore" they would tell me. He then explained it would be left to a responsible few too pick up the slack. Basically, he was saying, that with human nature being what it is, collective responsibility is a really hard thing to pull off outside of a family or small village type situation.

    If the Venus Project was put in to place, how would it deal with blocks of people pooling their resources to force a better outcome for themselves? Would there be restrictions on breeding? In closing, I agree with Natewlie - it is a great idea, but we are too immature as a species to implement it.
  4. YuL

    YuL Active Member

    I agree that it is pretty much impossible to rally every person on the planet behind the cause.
    Jacques Fresco's solution to people who would want more for themselves is that in such a society, everything would be free, and that in the long run, people would stop being greedy. He stated for example someone who goes play golf, it wouldn't cost anything, everything would be ran by automated machines, and you would get the best set of golf clubs on Earth. You can bring them back home if you wish, but in such a society, there would be no need to do so because they are available on place.
    I really wish to believe such a system would happen, so we stop working so that rich people get even richer. And these rich head of companies will fight so such a system never happens.
    I am indeed pesimist as to how people would use such a system to their own need and like Natalew said, the majority will care only for their family or close relatives rather than the whole humanity.
  5. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

    Besides, we already have a resource based economy, the primary/monetised resource just happens to be a precious metal.
  6. calvin_0

    calvin_0 Well-Known Member

    good idea on the paper, but not so pratical on the real world.... i mean how do you make come country give up on thier resources?
  7. YuL

    YuL Active Member

    In my opinion, it would take a major event that force everyone to join forces. Other than that you are right it is pretty hopeless.
  8. magides

    magides Member

    The idea of this ever happening is Not hopeless.

    It's a fact, however, that something like this won't be happening in our lifetime. But the idea is to get everyone educated. It's stated towards the end of Zeitgeist Addendum, that the change will come from our own consciences.

    "Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'" -George Carlin

    Education is the KEY
  9. redoperator

    redoperator Well-Known Member

    ... farm based economy with a technological side... food is a great money maker (it will always be needed, and if you have surplus you can sell it)
  10. magides

    magides Member

    There would be no money in this resource based economy, therefore you wouldn't need to sell anything.

    Check out the movie at www.ZeitgeistMovie.com
  11. allkratos

    allkratos Well-Known Member

    The best way is by killing money.Use resources as currency...
  12. magides

    magides Member

    That's the wrong idea of a RBE. There will be no such thing as currency. All decisions will be made based on how much resources there are and how it would affect the world itself.
  13. Oteupaiecona

    Oteupaiecona Well-Known Member

    One thing i remember from that movie is the guy saying that Police wouldn't be needed, because since there was no money, there would be no more crimes.
    That alone shows how much this system fails.
    Also, it counts on machines to do all the dirty work.Well, i do dirty work, and in order for machines to be able to do the work i do, they would have to be rational.Because many times things don't go according to plan, and you have to figure out a way to do it that isn't the normal way to do it.
    Terminator, anyone?
    Besides this, the evils of communism (which is what this is, except for lazy people, with machines to do all the work), have already been sort of explained by the previous posts.
    As for my opinion on what would be a good model for the not so distant future, see Social Democracy.
  14. redoperator

    redoperator Well-Known Member

    A resource based economy will lead to wars, when politics get in the way (it always does) it will lead to people fighting over for resource rights and exploitation.

    and then massive corporations will step in with private armies and police forces

    G-police trailer
    Please watch
  15. Oteupaiecona

    Oteupaiecona Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're quite getting the context of Resource Based Economy, as per the OP.
    That intro would be more predictable in a free-market, non regulated economy.
  16. Stanley Richards

    Stanley Richards Well-Known Member

    Think about all the resources and money that will be used to fund this project.
  17. bhatooth

    bhatooth Well-Known Member

  18. 2DamCerius

    2DamCerius My eyes for your brain...fair trade.

    The issue of this ever happening reminds of something that deals with becoming a hive---well, not necessarily a picture perfect utopian, but if we were to generate an entire planet based on the idea of functioning as one unit based on one ideal is wwwaaaayyyyy too optimistic, and too idealized.

    The politics of exercising this into practice would just create more opposition...like if we were to include a person's belief, for example, into the equation. The issues arise there because not everyone see's beyond their time and generation. The resources would have to be eventually exhausted anyways, since there is nothing left to substitute it.

    Would you think about fossil fuel, or oil, or iron, or any mineral deposits would remain for an entire year if money (the stupidest condition on Earth) were to be expelled from the planet. Some resources are only found in certain locations of the world, but no one would be kind enough to give those up.

    In the "modern" world people seem to ignore tragedy, and accept glutteny for currency. The way people think right now is based on individualism and independence...look at all of those Wars for a clue.
  19. Nitemare_ Plague

    Nitemare_ Plague Well-Known Member

    It'd be posssible but it'd have to start small like on an island with only a select few working in there to do everything as a massive community. when i say a select few i dont mean just the geniuses or this or that race or even by gender or political standing i mean just get people without sickness risks and no diseases and let them live in there for a while and it could work then spread it to all the countries around the world. but the motto would have to be "You work u eat" like a market, everyone takes time in there working and they get to take some of it home or the doctors and scientists do the same.

    ...i'd finish what i was gonna say but honestly i imagined this world i'm describing a long time ago and i'm too bored to put it into words
  20. Oteupaiecona

    Oteupaiecona Well-Known Member

    And that's where it all falls apart.
    How would you keep track of who's working and who's eating?
    No matter what ways you try to implement this, you would end up with a system very similar to money.