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Instincts versus Human Norms

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Cahos Rahne Veloza, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    Let me start of this topic with a lifting from the bible. You Atheists & skeptics please be patient.

    If Adam & Eve didn't eat of the fruit of knowledge of good & evil, what would you think life would be?

    Also if the stupid ten commandments were never written, what kind of society would we have??

    Bottom line:

    If these so called social norms were never put in place & man, like all of God's creations followed only nature's beastial instincts wouldn't things be better??

    I mean, just like animals, wouldn't it be better if we only paired off during mating season??

    Or wouldn't it be better if you could just beat the hell out of some other man who is hitting on your woman during mating season??

    Human abstracts such as love, hate jealousy & greed would be non existent.

    Can't we just live as nature intended us to be? To multiply, fullfill the cycle of life & not rape the Earth of its resources??
     
  2. kamage

    kamage Well-Known Member

    We don't necessarily need rules, but they do help us a whole lot more :)



    by a WHOLE LOT, I mean A WHOLE LOT
     
  3. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    But what of nature's other creations, why then do migratory animals cross countless distances to avoid the winter cold?? Sure they have a sense of leadership, but do you think they would benefit if they had some of our RULES??

    Take for example a lion & its harem of lionesses. If lions were subjected to two of the ten commandments (thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's stuff, I think, & thou shalt not commit adultery), you think they'll be much better of??

    Or take the "thou shall not kill" commandment, with it, how would you think predators might feel?? I suddenly remembered this Osamu Tezuka Anime "Leo the Lion", that cartoon was down right retarded, I mean a lion, leading a group of Carnivores to cultivate land & plant vegetable so they won't have to eat meat!!

    I still believe animals have it better with just basic instinct guiding you.
     
  4. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    lions do not commit adultery, they are in effect 'married' to all of the lionesses in the pride, as there is typically only one lion to about 20 (max) lionesses. Equally nor are they coveting their neighbour's property because it's all theirs.
     
  5. equitypetey

    equitypetey Well-Known Member

    being monogamous is nothing to do with religion or social context it is our instict, love is not real it is a cemical reaction your body gets pumped with it when you find a mate and when you have sex you get pumped full of this love chemical. there are other animals that do it to.

    in the early days of religions they where made to try to explain the unexplainable and to give power to someone as the high preast would be the leader and he'd use his position of man of god to controle his people.

    you say about the ten comandments these where written not long ago in relation to how long humans have been around. they have probably made us less barbaric but religion is still nothing more then something to gain power over people it always has and always will.

    but humans need the idea of god its in our nature to, look at tribes that get decovered that have never seen someone from the outside world they have some sort of worship. its in our nature to have the idea of a maker, it comes with having intelegance and the ability to shape the world around us (e.g. build stuff) that makes us not be able to just belive that we are what we are and need an explanation for why. god is just an easy explanation, he gets the credit he gets the blame.
     
  6. calvin_0

    calvin_0 Well-Known Member

    well lets take into count that people were stupid and not so educated in the old times....hance they tend to be babaric, rude and superstitions, not to mention the law enforcement is really weak.

    Luckily enough they are easy to manipulate by those smarter people hance religion is being born, the idea of god i belive is to trick people to being good with each other and stay out of crime, after all god is all knowing, you can rob a person and not to get cought by the law enforcer, but you cant run from god's judgement....of cause all of those is base on sole no body know what happen after you die which make people fear death.

    telling people there is a heaven and god not only make people behave better,

    i'm not saying religon is bad, after all belive there is a higher power watching over you make you feel safe and secure, and when you are having a hard time, beliving god will land a hand give you will to move on. However being too religions make you weak and stupid.
     
  7. kamage

    kamage Well-Known Member


    That is quite agree able, and it is also agreeable you spelled Hence wrong also...

    Religion contributes to the Law Enforcement World enough already, it keeps enough people intact with themselves, knowing that there is a righteous God that will pnish them if they do, but still Tricking them would still add a bit confusion...

    But if you believe that a higher being is watching over you, you also gain some sort of "trust" so that you can look forward to waking up tomorrow

    To some, God is an all knowing being, to others, He is a Punisher, To many, he is a Defender, and otherwise, he is nothing to other people, but I'm not saying he's nothing :p

    In conclusion, Having a religion can stop outbreaks from happening, having too many religions, it ends up in Turmoil

    Having a sacred book: Leads up to misunderstanding, take for example, Early christians were Cannibals, they misunderstood the Blood and body... Muslims, some parts of the Koran explicit Violence, especially in the book of peace...

    I'm not meaning any hard, just building up eevidence

    Anyways, even Hindus, tehy can't eat meat, They don't get along with Buddhists, tehy can eat meat, but can't kill... So basically, Religion creates the peace, as well as destroys it.






    ~Black and White
     
  8. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    That's true, since they know not of the abstractities of adultery or monogamy & coveting what others have.

    But loony, think about it, when a young, spry & "ready"lion begins his quest to continue, rather pass on his genetic legacy onto the next generation, doesn't that lion "covet" another's lioness pride? And, if need be, isn't he willing to fight and if possible kill the original lio, so he can claim possession of said pride? To the lions, this is only part of the cycle of nature, the all so familiar, survival of the fittest law, which in itself isn't an actual "law" in the human context, but rather a "law" influenced purely by instinct??

    I for one would really want to live in a setting like this, free from our vague abstracts of love, greed, hate & malice.
     
  9. iamlegend

    iamlegend Well-Known Member

    Stupid ten commandments ? They make sense to me....
    Maybe you should think before choosing your words in the future ??
     
  10. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    I think if the ten commandments didn't exist there wouldn't be much difference. It's not like anyone seems to follow them.
     
  11. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    Only in Christianity & judaism is there a commandment that its creator is the only one allowed to break them

    "thou shall not kill", yet time & time again in the bible, God committed mass genocide

    "thou shalt not praise other Gods", yeah right!! what if you don't got anything to offer that I really want, like Islam's acceptance of polygamy (limit 4 wives only!)

    I'm a Roman Catholic mind you but I'm so disgusted with my religion's cannons & doctrines that's so restrictive

    But look at what Christianity did

    1. It caused the Dark ages, making the advent of science to be 400 years late!!

    2. It destroyed other nation's rich cultural heritage, branding everything non Christian as religions of evil. Now when we go to museums, we're puzzled by the traditions & culture of ancient civilizations.

    3. It made us loose "faith", to borrow the term, in our basic instincts, which again for me, is more powerful than any religious belief system
     
  12. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    I follow my instincts. I was brought up a christian, with all that 'love thy neighbour' stuff, and I instinctively knew who my friends were, and who would 'betray' me. Had I followed 'love thy neighbour', I would have accepted both, and been hurt when the insincere ones turned against me. I did not, I trusted my instincts and they were proved correct over and over again.
     
  13. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    So loony, does your instincts say if I'm one of those good guys or one of those bad guys?

    But seriously sometimes our instincts can serve us better than any belief structure.

    Take the so called "woman's intuition" thing, guys who cheat on their wives/ girlfriends, think they're two steps ahead, in making sure their "steady" woman doesn't find out of his other affairs. Yet when the chips are laid, they find themselves at the mercy of an enraged "steady" woman who was actually miles ahead of him
     
  14. kamage

    kamage Well-Known Member

    I was raised on my religion, well you know what I mean, but I actually have some rants about the Bible, but I can keep them to my self, afterall, i only worship one God


    ~Roman Catholic....
     
  15. Crashtehelf

    Crashtehelf Well-Known Member

    ^I worship a small golden monkey named Keke
     
  16. Almo

    Almo Well-Known Member

    ^im in your boat, I worship the keg I was raised on.
     
  17. nomercy

    nomercy Well-Known Member

    If Eve didn't eat the forbidden fruit they wouldn't have been kicked out of the place. If Adam didn't eat the forbidden fruit, there would have been little offspring. ;)

    Running on instincts can get you somewhere, but not far. We need rules, regulations, control, order to survive in such vast numbers. I think it's unlikely that a pack of lions can become much larger than 20 animals, let alone a 100 or a 1000. You much more control and order for that. Now we did manage that too well in the 20th century, and because of that there are now 5.7 billion people in the world more than a hundred years ago. If we wish to cope with such a growth, we need more rules and orders worldwide, such as distribution of food, technology and environment. Yet we haven't reached that point yet, as parts of the world are still not sharing what their have or get. Both worldwide as at government level. It will require a large change (eg. space exploration, world revolution/war, global disaster), and then it might not even succeed. The change will happen this century, I'm sure of it. But if it will succeed to achieve the example above, who knows.
     
  18. Cahos Rahne Veloza

    Cahos Rahne Veloza The Fart Awakens

    Well one of the good things that changed is how we people as a whole treat our environment, we've started to listen to nature's call of pain. Countries all over have begun actions to reduce pollution & help the planet heal.
     
  19. equitypetey

    equitypetey Well-Known Member

    that's bull, the lengths people are going to to save ourselves (and i say ourselves cause the earth will go on)
    is minimal to the damage. America is doing basically nothing and still want to burn fuel till its all gone.
    and even if we stop polluting right now the only thing it will do is prolong the ice age that is coming for a few more years.
     
  20. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    yes, America is the biggest problem, because they don't give a shit. Bush had the nerve to criticise 3rd world countries for not staying inside the limits specified by the Kyoto Protocol, when he'd refused to even sign it. America is politically the most hypocritical nation on the planet.