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How to make a Gateway DX4200-09 into a decent gaming rig

Discussion in 'Non-Emulation Help' started by captainbitter, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    Hi guys. I just picked up this computer at best buy, and finally got over the burning rage at realizing I was sold windows vista 64bit instead of 32. Funny how that wasn't mentioned...

    Anyways, I'm looking into making it faster and better for gaming. Here comes the specs:

    Processor AMD Phenom(tm) 9100e Quad-Core Processor

    Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB
    Graphics ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
    Gaming graphics 1919 MB Total available graphics memory
    Primary hard disk 500GB Free (586GB Total)
    Windows Vista (TM) Home Premium

    System
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Manufacturer Gateway
    Model DX4200-09
    Total amount of system memory 4.00 GB RAM
    System type 64-bit operating system
    Number of processor cores 4

    Storage
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Total size of hard disk(s) 586 GB
    Disk partition (C:) 500 GB Free (586 GB Total)
    Media drive (D:) CD/DVD

    Graphics
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Display adapter type ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
    Total available graphics memory 1919 MB
    Dedicated graphics memory 256 MB
    Dedicated system memory 0 MB
    Shared system memory 1663 MB
    Display adapter driver version 8.521.0.0
    Primary monitor resolution 1440x900
    DirectX version DirectX 10


    Now I know the graphics card isn't that great, but I'm new to computers and I don't know what to get or how one would change it out. Also, I don't know exactly what "Overclock" is, but if it would improve my performance I'd be happy to try it.

    Lastly, I have a question. When I look for games and browse the system requirements, what is the maximum processor speed required that I can run? My current speed is 1.8ghz with a quad core, though I don't think that translates to a 7.2ghz processor.
     
  2. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    First things first;

    take the side off the computer (usually the left side when looking at it from the front) and you should be able to see the parts inside (if all you see is a metal panel, then take the other side off). Where the power goes in, but inside, is a box, which should have a sticker on it. Browse the sticker until you find the watt rating (written as something like 450W or Output: 450W). We need this figure before we can help you upgrade the hardware (it gives us an idea of what hardware your computer can power, and whether or not we need to advise you to get a higher rated one).

    Overclocking can make your computer faster, however it needs improved cooling, shortens the life of your processor and can cause system instability so it's not really recommended. Basically it involves tweaking the low level processor speed and voltage settings to get a slight (~10%) improvement; some processors overclock better than others and some don't overclock at all. My advice for you as a newbie is don't go there.

    Your processor is 1.8Ghz. It is only 7.2Ghz effective, this means if your software is 4-way SMP (symmetric multiprocessor) capable, you'll get the full 7.2Ghz, otherwise the main difference is being able to do more stuff at once. Most software is not SMP capable (video editing and 3D modeling/animation software generally is). This could be a potential candidate for upgrade; however we need to consider other things as well (notably the power supply and cooling arrangements).

    Your graphics card almost definitely needs upgrading, I believe it is an entry level one (Equitypetey would have to confirm as I'm a bit out of touch with the ATI numbering system)

    I would also suggest downgrading the OS, I'm not a fan of vista, and there's a tendency for 64bit OS versions to have issues running 32bit programs (most programs are 32bit)
    if you're worried about legalities then the vista license actually allows you to use XP on the vista license (it's called a downgrade right). Avoid XP 64bit at all costs, the drivers and application compatibility are absolutely terrible.
     
  3. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    Thanks Loony. First off, I haven't had any problems with vista 64 yet, but the only app that really uses it is iTunes, which isn't a whole lot. I don't know if I should downgrade all the way to xp, would that cause me any problems? Most stuff I see in stores is compatible with both. Thanks. I'll post the sticker specs.

    Of course it's upside-down...
    AC Input:100-127/220-240V-,7/3.5A,60/50Hz
    DC Output:300w (+3.3V & +5V=130w Max)

    Power supply model # is FSP300-60THA (1)

    The rest is in an asian language.
    Also, I've heard about partitioning the Hard drive to use different operating systems. I don't know how this is done, but I couldn't even fill 50GB on my last comp, so I dont think I'll need all 600gb on this one.

    Once again, thanks a million for your time, Loony.
     
  4. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    300W is bad, and the asian writing is also worrying in its own way. Basically, if a power supply gets too close to it's rated output, it can fail (if it goes over, it will fail). There are a number of ways that it can happen, but some of them involve surging and damaging other components. 'cheap' or 'unbranded' power supplies are statistically more likely to fail below the rated output. I assume yours is unbranded, because major brands label their PSUs in English if they are for sale in English speaking markets. Regardless, if it was branded it would have one of the following names on in large writing: 'OCZ', 'ThermalTake', 'CoolerMaster', 'Antec', 'Seasonic', 'Silverstone' or 'Corsair'

    I would not upgrade any of your hardware without getting a new PSU. 300W is dangerously close to what your computer draws, even for a branded supply. In fact, doing something highly processor intensive (some kind of graphics/video rendering or transcoding) could cause a fail. I would suggest at least a 500W in your system. I generally try to have at least 150W between what my computer uses (as measured by something like http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343) and what my PSU is capable of outputting. This gives me room to upgrade, plus reduces the chance of a fail if it happens to have an under rated threshold. Thus, I have a 600W PSU, and my computer generally draws around 335W. Power supplies are not something you skimp on, as I said in the previous paragraph, every time a PSU fails there's a chance of it taking something else with it, so by getting a power supply with a higher rating than you think you need, and made by one of the above mentioned brands, you have done what you can to minimise the chance of it failing.

    Downgrading to XP should not cause major problems; you may need to make a slipstreamed disk with your hard disk drivers on as I imagine it's SATA and Windows XP setup does not natively recognise a lot of SATA controllers. If that is the case then I can help with that since I've done it before. (actually have one with virtually all hard disk drivers already in it; I've had a number of people wanting me to downgrade their vista to XP).
     
  5. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    My power supply is FSB group inc. (Or FSP. I forgot)
    I was almost expecting it to say, "City Power Supply". (South park joke. "city beef" and "City Shrimp". Say it with a thick chinese accent)

    How difficult is it to replace a power supply? I'm not too familiar with computers but I've repaired DVD players and the like.

    In all honesty, how much of a boost will running XP instead of Vista give me? Will it really be worth the trouble?

    Lastly, if there is a free, but illegal and/or unethical way to get XP, you should probably tell me how so I can make sure I never do that. (I don't use bittorrent, But things like limewire are available)
     
  6. Almo

    Almo Well-Known Member

    lmao I love that south park ep, we have city stop just down the road :p (shitty wok anyone?)

    anyway im not overly sure on all the power supply side, though I think im going to check mine before my new RAM comes. Also generally a game to run on vista will need 2GB ram, whereas the same game on XP will only need 1GB. Also 64bit XP is horrid, compatibility is really bad. Although you have 4GB ram 64bit will aloow you to use it, downgrading to a 32bit OS you will only be able to use aprox 3.3gb of your 4gb ram, though that probably wont make too much of a difference really.
     
  7. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    The more I read up on it, the more I think I should just upgrade my hardware and leave vista alone. Maybe things will catch up and my 64bit OS won't be as much of a hassle. I do think I should get myself a new video card and power supply, though. I'm not expecting to run Crysis but I use my 42in LCD tv as my main monitor, so it's neccessary for me to have things on high settings. (I have a little regular monitor on my desk as well)


    Edit: Dude, Almo, are you serious? I'd lose almost a quarter of my RAM? Friggin ridiculous.
     
  8. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    generally changing the power supply involves disconnecting all the internal cables, removing a few screws and then doing it again backwards to put the new one in. Is there any chance I can have a photo of the case and power supply (there's different shapes and sizes, and I need to make sure its not a custom one, otherwise you're probably stuck)
     
  9. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Let me know if you need better pictures. It's a big case, I don't think size is an issue.
     
  10. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    shape was more of an issue but that looks to me like a perfectly standard ATX power supply, which are nice and easy to replace.

    Now the important bit is determining what kind of power supply you need (ATX is the physical form factor).

    the way to determine this is by the cables plugged into the motherboard (the big PCB).

    There should be a big long one, this is a standard 20+4 pin (or 24 pin, if it looks like it splits in two near one end its 20+4). In addition, there should be one or more of the following:

    a separate 4 pin connector
    an 8 pin connector (or two 4 pins plugged into the same socket)

    Let me know which there is. additionally, let me know if there's a 6 pin power plug going into the graphics card.

    All plugs have two rows of pins.
     
  11. Patton

    Patton Guest

    I will 2nd that, and, goto Windows Server 2003 64bit, or Windows XP.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention. FUCK VISTA /end of rant.

    I had Vista on my laptop for the longest time. Finally found drivers and installed W2k3 ENT.
    Comparing W2k3 to Vista is like night and day.

    Vista is sad, a disgrace on Microsoft's part.
     
  12. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    32bit, 2k3 enterprise doesn't need 64bit to address more than 4GB of ram.
     
  13. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    The Long one doesn't appear to split in two towards the end, it appears uniform throughout its length.
    I believe the 4-pin connector is the yellow and black cables with the long, square plug at the top left of the motherboard.

    I don't see any other wires outside of those and the ones marked "usb", the ones going to the 2 fans, and the long thin red one that goes to the hard drive.

    I don't know what a video card looks like, but if it's the flat green plate with a bunch of stickers on it, running perpendicular to the motherboard, plugged into the long white socket, it appears to not have anything going to it. I can try getting better pictures, if necessary. (Thanks once again, loony)
     
  14. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    correct, that is an ATX12V+ connector.

    Probably, look on the back of the case and if its what the monitor is plugged into then that is the video card.


    The next step if you want to proceed is to find a suitable power supply. You need an ATX powersupply of at least 500W output capacity that has the required connectors (24 or 20+4 pin ATX, 4pin ATX12V/CPU12V) and a 6 pin PCI-E connector (you'll need at least one, maybe two, for a better graphics card). it must also be made by one of the companies I mentioned above. Your favourite online store should allow you to narrow by watt rating, beyond that it might be a case of reading description/specification pages. Remember you're not after cheap, but it doesn't need to be hugely expensive. (I wouldn't go less than £45-50, or $50). If you're not sure post links here and someone will check the spec for you.
     
  15. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    http://shop2.frys.com/search?cat=-51722&pType=pDisplay

    I'm willing to buy any of the ones on this page. Which would you suggest? They all seem to be compatible, but I'm not familiar with brand idiosyncracies.


    Also, the monitor is plugged into what looks like a little blue box on the inside, which attaches directly to the motherboard. The thing I'm thinking is the video card is about 5 inches long and 2 inches wide by the bottom of the motherboard, while the plug for the monitor is near the top.

    Also, now that we have that out of the way, what video card should I get?
     
  16. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    I would suggest the Antec TruePowerTrio 550W (Item # 4991681)

    You are currently using onboard video, this means the video processing chip is actually part of the motherboard. These chips lack the grunt of their add-in counterparts

    You will notice right below the CPU there is a long black slot, this is a PCI-E x16 slot for an add-in graphics card.

    There are two major graphics card manufacturers, ATI and Nvidia. (neither actually sell cards though). I personally am a long time Nvidia user, and find they perform better than ATI, however some people, such as equitypetey, disagree with me.

    If you tell us what kind of games you'll be playing (give examples), how frequently, and what sort of quality you want them in, we'll be able to work out which cards you want to chose between.

    As ATI and Nvidia do not sell their own cards (unless you're lucky and get a reference model). the cards are rebranded with another company name, followed by either geforce (if its nvidia) or radeon (if ATI) then the model code. With graphics cards, there are one or two manufacturers to avoid, such as evga and sparkle, other than that it doesn't really matter, although BFG and XFX tend to be favoured by gamers (they cost correspondingly more though).
     
  17. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    I haven't had the chance to play many games on my comp. I mostly used my old one for photoshop. On this comp, Sins of a Solar Empire and Civ 4 are my only games, but I want to change that. I like FPS and adventure on my 360, but I'm trying to stay away from MMOs for awhile. (I've been sober from WoW for 157 days. Life is more fun with more than 3 hours sleep per night. Also, I'm kind of a douche on Phantasy Star Universe) I'm not fond of racers, sports, and horror, but everything else is good.

    What games within my specs do you reccomend? Fallout 3 looked cool, as did Assassin's creed and Fable 2.
     
  18. Loonylion

    Loonylion Administrator Staff Member

    I run a Geforce 8800GTX (nvidia reference model as it happens). It's not the newest card available, but I've not found anything it can't run on full settings yet. basically, you need a midrange or high end card, and theres a particular code with nvidia cards. The first number is the series, don't get anything lower than 8. the second number is the market, i.e low end, mid range, high end. You want a 6 or and 8. the letters on the end denote what level the card is and from worst to best are as follows: GS, GTS, GT, GTX, GTX Ultra. I would suggest you ideally get a GT or higher.

    BUT WAIT. There is a catch. Following the 9 series, nvidia changed the numbering system. So if you see a geforce 260 GTX, or 280 GTX, these are actually currently the best cards on the market (as you may have determined from the cost). the 260 is a midrange, the 280 high end.

    Now I would wait for Equitypetey to make a suggestion or two from ATI's range, and then you can choose for yourself.
     
  19. captainbitter

    captainbitter Well-Known Member

    edit: oops. Nevermind. Reading comprehension ftw.

    I await your verdict, equitypetey
     
  20. equitypetey

    equitypetey Well-Known Member

    depends on how much you want to spend or if you want top of the range or something that will get you by till you got more cash.

    but looks to me as a good runner price vs power the ati hd 4670 looks really good. mid range sort of price and good looking running specs 


    edit: if you look at the specs it is faster then the more expensive hd 4870 but just has less stream processors, i think its 320 compared to something like 800 in the 4870. but if you you at it the nvidia 8800 loony said about has only something like 120 to my recollection.
    so it will be a very good card me thinks.