god, do you exists?!

Oh yes, adapting to an environment is a different section of the stages of evolution, but good point.

Just like a certain tropical bird, one group of them lived on a certain part of the island, and the other lived on another part. One of the groups learned how to break nuts and whatnot with their beaks, thus slowly making their beaks bigger and stronger for the job. The other group didn't use the same technique, so their beaks stayed the same.

Well, it was something like that, I really can't remember.

 

I'm quoting this simply because it explains a whole lot about the mentality of many religious people. Not you in particular, but it might just apply to your thinking.

You don't understand science... it's too complex... yet you are willing to discount years of research, debate, and trusted laws.

Most of your examples in your "faith vs proof" post were subjective. Corrupt... it's meaning changes with who uses it. Same thing as love, hate, alive... they are all relatively subjective. It's a product of a flawed language system that we created ourselves to better manage our lives...

As an example to language, math itself is a human created tool to better our efficiency. When they invented the concept of zero, life and knowledge almost flipped from the possibility seeing 'nothing' in a numerical form.

Religious people are difficult fight against, not because they know better (because their source material is utterly flawed), not because they are better prepared (only a small fraction of religious people have ever read the bible and researched for older translations), and not because they have god on their side (which is equivalently to me having a lucky rabbits foot equipped with a horse shoe that has sprinklings of 4-leaf clovers on it). Its because they shut themselves off or rationalize some trivial excuse when they feel threatened by any fact or truths that they can't explain away using the bible.

Instead of actually saying why I was contradicting myself in my post, you began questioning proof by using faith... you see where that got you?

Here, let me summarize:

"oh and, If you don't understand that post, Is that Proof or Faith that I am dumb?"
- Neither. I don't have enough evidence that you are in fact stupid, but from your own words (below), I can conclude that you are ignorant.

"That just means that Humans, Monkeys, and Bananas came from a similar organism?"
"or was it something above our race, it may not be God, but it's nice to be insured when you die"
"it just might be an excuse by the government"
"because things like taht are easy to fake"
"and how come Monkeys ahve 48 chromosomes? they don't look that much different to me."
"but *Shrugs* who knows about science, it's so complex"

Here, I'll be nice to answer the last question with a half-hearted, non-specific answer: scientists. They know about science.


Remember, when you isolate any particular amount of quotes to your advantage, it's referred to as cherry-picking.

It's a concept mastered by anti-gays and anti-abortion religious fundamentalists.

 

it could be pass down by thier parent which live in the cold area.

 

I believe there is God because we can't just pop out of nowhere.
I think that we ddidn't evolved from monkeys. Fossils that show prehistoric humans are probably real, but the humans back then don't have hospitals and bathtubs. They could grow fur or something like that.

 

how about the father side?

 

Okay, what I mean about my posts, Imagine if all those years of hard work were disproved? imagine we knew completely nothing about that, what would eventually pop up, outrageous things that will let us feel comfortable to believe on creation... yeah that's what those posts were about, but If you actually want a structured debate from me, then I shall do that...

Okay, The theory of evolution presents an extreme amount of plausibility, but if you take account of othertheories, like the theory of need, taken from the words of something Baptist... Animals weren't evolved, but they change through the needed organs, and lose the unused organs, but if he states that they change, wouldn't he actually be disproving his theory that evolution didnot take place? Also, Darwin's theory of adaptation is basically the theory of need, without the Vestigial organs, but why are "Rivals" within the theory of evolution? They mean the samething, but how are they exactly different?
We all know about God's existence within our hearts, and we all have to accept that not everyone believes in God, and I do accept that, but my problem is the type of "Racism" going on through this topic...
Anyways, back to science.
If a Monkey contains 48 different types of chromosomes, that gives them a greater probability of gaining gene-related diseases, due to the other 2 pairs of genes being passed down, and they may be infected, which is probably another reason on how our "Brother Apes" are dying out, and with 46 chromosomes, we have a high population rate, due to a "Larger brain: and it is proven that Whales/Dolphins have larger brains than Humans, so they may have a secret civilization...But that's just me, because if there is no God, these animals may be considered superior lifeforms soon in the future, but the only way they are going down is the lack of much needed appendages, and that our Human rate is flourishing, but I'm betting we aren't the onlyones with an "empire" on earth. On to God's existence:
Sure, his existence is proved only by Faith, and there is lack of proof, but on the first page referring to the question, Who wrote the Bible? It was the Apostles, just to clarify that, so indeed they were created by man, hoax or not, it is a leading religion around the world, and Faith can greatly affect the outcome. Like If you have "faith" You'll perfect a test without studying, that's practically impossible...so Faith isn't undeniable proof.
According to Loonylion's post, That isn't evolution, that is basically a physiological trait, a trait wherein it is used for survival, warmth, or even camouflage, so it's adaptation within one species lifetime.
About Disease's post, I do understand science, it's just too complex to understand all of it, that is all I'm trying to put across. And, if Corruption is opposing ideas, then the world has alto of it, but "Cherry-picking" isn't a widely used word, and I'd just like to point it out ;D
Religion can be useful sometimes,it give's an extra outlook on points that are indescribable to scientists, a point that you cannot understand Mr desaze, but I do know you understand a world of problems, science, and intellect, and you've earned my respect for that, but we can describe almost anything with science nowadays, and the basic probability of me winning this debate? Slim to none, and If I can't win it over, then I guess I'll just keep fighting.
A topic unrelated to the causes: If we were actually Evolved from Precambrian organisms, which I'm not saying we aren't exactly, How are we interpreted to have similarities to single celled prokaryotes? I mean if you discount the theories, or your greatest weapon, how would it sound like, according to you, imagine if all of Science's influences were stripped away from this world? How would you then describe it? I already know your answer, Too bad, our world has this information, That question is useless. But if all of your beliefs were stripped off, what would you feel? Would you win in a debate where two people (example, you and me) talking about a subject where there is strong knowledge, but not enough to pinpoint a practical solution, what would the final expression be?

Okay, enough about talking about that useless stuff, I was thinking out of the box in those last posts, but I do understand science, but I am willing to oppose years of research, debates, and trusted laws, because of human's free will, you cannot stop that, but Humans created these laws to comfort themselves, just for knowing that there is something there that is true, and something that isn't physically true, in summary? Humans are Cowards, we cannot live a life without this "relatively safe" knowledge.

And opposing such ideas isn't corruption, it is the exact opposite, it is the will to be perfect, everyone opposes something, like you opposing me, Take account of all those laws yet to have come, for all i know, we can both be top researchers on different campaigns. but take this for account: everything has a flaw, everything can be improved, and nothing is real for sure

*Waits patiently for desaze's reply*

Oh yeah, and Desaze, most of my posts were rhetorical questions...And you cannot disprove a person's freewill, because everyone is wrong, I'm wrong, your wrong, all these posts are wrong....(That is just a random reply)

And, I end my side...for now...until you post again.... ;D

 

wow....after reading all those wall-of-text, i still dont know that are you trying to said *clap hands*....care to explain?

 

Oh man... I literally had to force myself to take in that brick-text you posted...

My eyes hurt...

Alright, I guess I'll just give some arguments the the portion of text that I understood...

-Human freewill does not excuse ignorance (aka. people who don't want to know and don't try to know). When you say that you don't understand both sides of an argument, you effectively just revealed that you shouldn't be in the argument. At all. If I have no idea why abortionists claim that it's wrong, then I cannot argue against them properly. Plain and simple.

So if you never read the bible to realize what really was the 10 commandments, then you cannot demand it to be placed outside of every government building, ect... ect... ec...

So to apply that to our discussion here, if you have such questions about science, you cannot just say "I think it doesn't matter what science says because I don't believe it."

I do notice that a lot of religious people think along those lines. Well, it makes you more comfortable to not have to think that what you grew up thinking, what you picked up along life, what you find so personal, could be completely backwards, completely wrong, and sometimes, completely corrupt.

Oh, and to end this particular portion of my post:

plainly listed in Exodus 34:13-28
I. Thou shalt worship no other god.
II. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
III.. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep
IV. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
V. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of
in gathering at the year's end.
VI. Thrice In the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God.
VII. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
VIII. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
IX. The first of the first fruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
X. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.


Too move on, I'll make a note about a HUGE block of text you brought up...


Religious people are segregated and picked on quite often. It's something that is unfair, and wrong... just like trying to ban gay marriage, kill abortion doctors, protest that earth is 6000 years old...

All sides of the argument in this case are filled with stupid, ignorant, and very angry people who won't mind going into low blows just to feel like they are winning the argument.

I've lost good friends because they were convinced that me, my family, and a majority of my friends were going to hell because we are/were:

-smart-asses (which I protest is still better than being dumbasses)
-players of an MMORPG (which was created by the devil to distract us btw)
-Asian (god doesn't like asians)
-Buddhists (who don't worship any god, btw)
-atheists
-agnostic

Due to this background, I know that I've been rather unfair to the religious community... mostly because you try to soil our educational system with your "beliefs," inspire your people when they are in emotional tailspins (my friend lost her father, a buddhist, and immediate switched to a belief system that would condemn him to hell), and pass judgment to all others despite your bible saying you are not allowed to.

It's the contradictions. And yes, cherry picking is a very widely used term for [religious] discussions.

Example:

Gay marriage should be banned and the gays need to be 'cured': why? Because of Leviticus, the S&G entries that state you should never lie next to a man as you would a woman since it is an abomination.

Well, guess what?

In the text proceeding that, it was stated that it is an abomination to:
=Eat shrimp
=Don't plant two different seeds in the same hole
=To eat a rabbit
=Weaving linen and wool together

Since you feel cherry picking isn't a common word, I'll use another word instead: selective reading. You choose to follow this, but not that because 'that' would be inconvenient to your life.

Along the bible, if you were to follow it unquestionably, then you would also have the ability to sell your daughter into slavery, kill those who ejaculate outside the vagina because their seed fell to the floor and it wasn't for creating a child.

Exodus states to kill those who work on the Sabbath.

Note that the method to kill was culturally for the 'sinner' to be dragged to the streets and his neighbors would throw stones at them until their bodies give up. All for what reason? Because God said so.


So please understand that I don't like religious anythings. If you are religious and you use the bible as inspiration rather than some strange outdated nazi-book to overtake the government and have state officials execute homosexuals and anyone who eats at a sea-food restaurant, then I wouldn't go to this extend to destroy your religious argument. Simple as that.


Now, I am almost completely lost to what a majority of your post says... this is not only due to the wall-o-text issue, but also because you seem to spray scientific evidence into your argument but then asks questions and state things like they are fact, but not really... or something...

Extra outlook on points that scientists can't describe is rather subjective. I say it's giving false meaning to real issues so you can just go on and say "goddidit" instead of thinking more critically.

The bible offers no answers to our day and age because those who wrote it did so in their own time's context. If the bible was truly a word of god, then it should apply literally and clearly to our day and age, not to the age of ignorant people who still believed that you should kill someone for not inviting a stranger into their homes to entertain them immediately (Sodom and Gomorrah, the two angels who visited only to be forced out and so they brutally MURDER everyone in the city for being so far away from god's words...)


... come to think of it, God has a track record of mass murder... a giant flood, Abraham, using his angels, killing the first born sons, plagues, and all for what?

Nevermind. I forgot what I was talking about. I'll wait for another post before I get further lost...

 

God is real! Spread the word! But then again Jesus was proven real but nobody knows he actually did miracles and stuff but you can't deny fact.

 

Jesus was never proven real. They just know that at the time, there was probably someone named Jesus who was executed... but no real facts on whether he was 'the son of god'

God is real? That is an outrageous declaration. And since we live in a forward moving society, it's your job to prove it. You don't actually have to go and do the research, you can just give us what someone else says... but you still need to provide proof... or sound like an idiot. You choose.

You can't deny fact? What fact? The fact that you misuse the word "fact"? The fact that you lack any real argument that can hold up against anything someone throws at it? The fact that I can say the following is JUST AS MUCH credibility as you:

The spaghetti is real! Spread the word! The Flying Spaghetti Monster was proven real but nobody knows what he really tastes like but you can't deny fact!!!!

 

Whatever... But doesn't it make sense? I mean, nobody can prove it, right? That would make sense because if there was real proof everyone would convert in a second with real proof. But God doesn't want to force people to convert so he made it impossible to find any evidence. God only wants people in heaven who really believe not just people who converted because they saw real proof and realized they've been wrong all along. There. Your proof. God is real, you all can just burn forever. But by duty is to spread the word even on illegal ROM sites

 

So you assume he exists before you have evidence to support it.

Well then scientology's alien story works just as well as god and jesus and holy spirit, and horrible incestuous genetic repopulation story.

That isn't proof by the way... it's saying that there is no way to prove either way, which means that God has no factual evidence, which actually makes sense since God is imaginary.

And yes, you are ridiculous and your posts aren't made to be a legitimate point. Ironic, but still not meant to be taken seriously. Course, I don't care... my argument still has it's stand despite being made against joke posts.

 

Do you know how to read? Do you know how religion works (Christianity - Protestantism?). There isn't supposed to be proof like I said, otherwise everyone would convert. You need real belief, not proof. I don't need to explain things further. Believe what you want to I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Ends posts in this thread -

 

Right. That makes it faith based, therefore you cannot use the words "fact", "proof", "truth", and "Do you know how to read" in the same argument for religion.

Guess what? Your outrageous claims are for yourself... the moment you demand the spreading of the word, telling it to your children, claiming it over anyone else's opinions (ie. other religions), then you are putting yourself in the realm of reason and logic... which means you lose automatically... so why say anything at all when you have nothing to bring to the table?

Do YOU know how to read? You are using your "freedom of religion" to infringe on other people's "freedom of religion" or in some people's cases "freedom from religion." Mind stopping?

 

about adaptation
adaptation is different then evolution. adapting is fitting in to the environment to survive while the other is a complete change of the beings structure. what's the purpose of the evolution, it could possibly be due to the current form not being able to be "the survival of the fittest".

about time
time is only relevent to where you live. here living earth we have 365 days a year except every leap year [366 days] and have a time of 24 hours a day. if we were living in pluto or some other planet [either farther or closer to the sun and either revolving fast or slow] then the time will be relative to the planet. however, i don't know if it's possible to have time [probably come up with some formula] when you're only on a spaceship and not on a planet. what exactly would you use as a standard of measurement since you don't revolve and rotate around the sun.

what then
if god doesn't exists, what then would the purpose of our existance mean.
we all know that those who believe in god believe that they are to serve god [spread his beliefs, worship him, etc....]. but if you don't believe in god, then what would be the purpose of your existance?!

mind experiment
anyone have one?!

 

Our purpose for existence is again extremely suggestive.

Mine is to give my friends a chance to laugh when they hang out with me... to grow old, to raise intelligent, independent, and wonderful children... to love my future wife and help her as we grow old.

For others, it could be to stop racial hate and show the world that we love each other.

For someone else, it could be to give their whole lives to serve the family that they want to protect through being a police officer to being a military soldier.

It could also be that we are all controlled by our genes and the only reason we have bodies is to protect the germs in our bodies so we can reproduce endlessly and sustain our own livelihood.


Meaning is also something relevant to insecure people who need a purpose to live. You can change your purpose like the roll of a die. That is why a priest could turn into an athiest or a man could lose his whole family then dedicate the rest of his life to preventing drunk driving. Everyone has a unique view of life and having someone tell you your destiny (through god, a priest, or anything else) is not really YOUR purpose... it's out of your hands.

And no, I am not saying we humans are our own god... but thats because I know God doesn't exist and for that reason, you can never be a god yourself. No one and nothing is all powerful or it is corrupt... hint why God wouldn't hesitate to wipe out the world in a flood but then tell Jesus to come down and tell everyone that he didn't do anything from the Old Testament... I mean... that is why you guys follow the New Testament right? Because Jesus is God, but not really?

 

it mean nothings, the golden rule of life is to survive and reproduce, the same apply of other top tier life on earth like Human, Lion, Tiger or Shark, those who have no nature predator is consider as top tier life.

 

Okay, desaze, Religion isn't meant for fact, it is meant for believing, and you choose whether or not to beleive, okay?

Anyways, Free will is the reason for whatever you said.

Our purpose for existance isn't written, it is lived.

You're arguement only has a stand because of what? Free Will that's right.

Exodus states don't kill anyone who works on the sabbath, we have lived past that stage, this is modern world we are talking about man!
God doesn't hate Asians, people who play MMORPG's (That belief is believed by only a few...) he doesn't ahte Athiests, or Agnostics, or what ever that is... He loves tehm all equally, and in the Philippines, It's okay to be gay, and follow the christian religion. God was meant to be Universal, one, and the Perfect being, and disproving his existance only proves him more, because every thing disproved against him, is approved by the Chruch, so it's only a chain that nobody will ever win.

Wrods are powerful weapons, so don't use them against something one person believes, let him be free to believe, and don't put that person down, I do think God is real, and you don't, case solved. So, If you were to tell a six year old: Your daddy died in Iraq, when he just divorced, that's also Faith, to the six yearold, it's faith for some people, proof for others, faith can be proof, but proof can't be faith. I'm right about that last sentence, but unfortunately, you will disprove me saying Faith isn't proof, but I ahve faith that Faith is proof, to some people, and it is NOTHING to others, got that? End of story.
The purpose is to live life, and that is all we are meant to do, is all I heard from your post desaze, and by the way, Short enough for you?