Death penalty

Alright, I'm going to be using pieces of information from this website http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/lethal-injection/page.do?id=1101012 and http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/injection.html to rebuttal against your statement, please read each part carefully.

"If not rendered unconscious, the inmate will feel excruciating pain; if paralyzed by the pancuronium bromide, the inmate will be unable to show this pain."
That is, of course, what happens with complications of the injections.

Which one? Because, by your arrogant choice of words, I can assume that you must know that there are three shots that the prisoner has to endure, and only the third puts them to sleep. The first two are saline solutions.
They do not use needles the size of a garden hose for the solutions.
"Trained technicians then insert a 14 gauge (2.0mm diameter) catheter, the largest commercially available needle".
The largest commercially available needle. Painful.

In case you didn't know, during a lethal injection, 1st the prisoner is given two saline solutions, then an anesthetic shot which must over an hour.
"Some executions have lasted between 20 minutes to over an hour and prisoners have been seen gasping for air, grimacing and convulsing during executions."

"The Potential Problems
The prisoner resists and delays establishment of an intravenous line.
The execution team is not able to find a suitable vein.
The mixture or composition of drugs is wrong.
The direction of flow of the injection is wrong.
The chemicals are directed into tissue rather than a vein.
The prisoner does not react normally to the drugs."

"the fact that the autopsies of all of the other men in South Carolina who had been executed by lethal injection showed that at least 60% of them were conscious when the drug that stops breathing was induced, leaving them to basically suffocate." -http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hill.html (I'll get to that in a second.)

Like I said,
"Some executions have lasted between 20 minutes to over an hour and prisoners have been seen gasping for air, grimacing and convulsing during executions."
What's the point in murder if you think you will get caught? Well, you don't commit it. Unless falsely accused or of self-defense with a court that finds you guilty.


Now please take the time to do these next few items.

Spoiler: Background information.

David Clayton Hill was born on June 9, 1964 and was raised in Georgetown, South Carolina. On Friday, March 3, 2004, he was put to death in that state for the murder of Police Maj. Spencer Guerry on March 7, 1994. Spencer Guerry was shot in the face during a roadside vehicle stop and David Hill’s driver’s documents were found at the scene. He had apparently stopped Hill for driving a car with out of date Colorado tags. Spencer Guerry died two days later without regaining consciousness. David Hill was convicted of the murder and sentenced to death in October 1995. Click here for a photo of him.



Earlier on the day of his execution, the U.S. Supreme Court voted 5-4 to vacate a stay Hill had received two weeks previously and let the execution proceed. Hill's lawyers had argued South Carolina doesn't sedate inmates enough to render them unconscious before administering chemicals to paralyze muscles, stop respiration and still the heart, therefore, the prisoner could be conscious and in agony during the execution process. The state attorney general's office appealed to the Supreme Court to lift the stay.



Your author has been fortunate to be contacted by David Hill’s spiritual adviser and be allowed to publish his first hand experiences of the execution.



Father Andrew has been involved in ministry to death row families for many years, but David Hill was the first condemned inmate he had actually worked with. He was David's spiritual advisor for 7 months and baptized him and brought him into the Catholic Faith in February 2004.


His recollections of David’s death, in his own words written the morning after the execution as a letter to David’s friends, are as follows :]Read this, it is background information of a man who was executed.

Spoiler: The letter. Please read, it's very touching

”I was one of his two appointed witnesses and was with him throughout the preparation process of the last day of his life. I was also present throughout the execution preparation.


I should mention to you that David's lawyers tried to stop his execution due to the fact that the autopsies of all of the other men in South Carolina who had been executed by lethal injection showed that at least 60% of them were conscious when the drug that stops breathing was induced, leaving them to basically suffocate.

These records were hidden by the State but obtained by David's lawyers.

Unfortunately, the US Supreme Court overturned David's stay at the very last minute on the last day of his life (March 19, 2004 at 3:00 p.m.). David was executed 3 hours later at 6:00 p.m.
It took 18 minutes for his heart to stop and for death to be declared. I pray that he was not conscious or aware of pain during that long interval.


I just wanted to let you know how this past Friday went with David Hill at the Broad River Capital Punishment Facility.

I am pretty much devastated right now. I have cried so much. It’s getting a bit better but I still have horrid memories of the whole procedure.

I spent the entire day with David except for about an hour (1 to 2 p.m.) while he took a nap. I was in the cell with him.

I had given him Holy Communion/Viaticum in the morning before the Supreme Court ruled in the event that things did go bad.

When the warrant for death was issued at 3 p.m., I was not allowed to go into the cell anymore, but prayed with him through the bars. I gave him the Apostolic Pardon at the Hour of Death and we prayed for him spontaneously for courage and strength. He amazingly prayed for me and his attorney that we could endure the process and for his brother who was a witness.

As they took him from the one room cell to the 'tie down' room where the stretcher was, I read the psalms. As they tied him down, I placed my hand on his shoulder and read the 23rd Psalm and the reading from the Old Testament that there would be "no more pain, no more sadness, no more death." They then moved him to the execution chamber and I was able to hold my hand on his face and stroke it as they were putting the two needles in each arm which took forever.
I told David to look at me when the execution began and that when he looked at me and closed his eyes the next time he would open them would be to see Jesus face to face in heaven. I then had to go around the window since no one except the warden could be in the room while the actual drugs went into the arms.

I had to run down a hall and around to get to the witness room. I was supposed to be in the front row middle seat so he could see me according to the Human Rights Officer at the prison. But one of the victim's family members took my seat instead so I was struggling to find a place that David could see me and ended up in the middle row.
David looked at me and smiled several times while I prayed the Lord's prayer with him, he said the prayer through the glass and after about 5 minutes lost consciousness. It took 18 minutes for them to put all the drugs into him. I hope he had no pain or turmoil from the lack of medications. (South Carolina doesn't use enough sedative to adequately sedate the inmate).

It was one of the most profound moments in my 15 years as a priest, next to baptizing him several weeks ago.

The whole process was horrific. All day long they had 4 people (guards) watching David. Every thing he (and I) did was written down. Some of the guards were very nice and were visibly moved when they found out the execution would be carried out.

The execution team itself were 3 young men who were medical technologists and they seemed as cold as stone as were the "tie down" team (the official name) of the men who manhandled David on his way to the gurney.

The Protestant Chaplain was wonderful to me. He was on the staff so he got me to have close contact with David while they were doing the procedures. He placed me right next to David and told me it was OK to comfort me. In actuality, David was trying to reach out to me and Jerome “J” Nickerson, his attorney, and his brother Jeff, and comfort us.

J, was also there a lot during the day and was absolutely fantastic. He read David's final statement which simply said: "Read Philippians 1: 9-23" which David and I had picked as an appropriate passage. David hoped that if people who were angry or vengeful went to the their bibles to look that up, they would begin to read more and through the Word of God come to find everlasting life and peace.

After the warrant was issued, they allowed him to shower and change. When the time came to move him to the gurney, 5 enormous men came and grabbed him by the back of the neck and carried him like a mad dog to the table, even though he was willing to walk. It was horrible to see the way they manhandled him. I prayed out loud during that time. It was absolutely terrifying.

All day long they were bringing all sorts of food for the guards.
When David went to take a nap, I asked if I could have something to eat. One large man (350 lbs.) (a guard) who was shovelling food into his mouth told me I could find "your own damn food." (quote). I had to go to a vending machine in another building to get some crackers, as I waited for David to wake from his nap, they made me wait in the room that the execution is viewed in. At that time, we did not know he would be executed. After 3 p.m. everything changed and it was a very hard time.

I am glad that I was able to be there with him. I told David that I had come to see Christ in Him during the time that I had gotten to know him and as he came to Faith. As they began to execute him, he smiled at me and said "God Bless you."

I am so very traumatized by all of this. I cry quite a lot and feel numb all over. We are planning a special funeral service for David soon but we are afraid of protests or supporters of the death penalty showing up and disrupting the funeral. So we are not making the time known publicly out of respect for David's family.

Different newspapers tell different accounts, but the execution did take 18 minutes because I timed it.”]Please take the time to read the letter. It is very touching.

Both excerpts are from http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hill.html

Now please take time to veiw these photos, but please be warned that some of what your about to see is disturbing.

This is a man strapped to one form of the gurney that they put the prisoners on.
The same type of gurney with nobody on it
A different type of gurney
Executions in different regions since 1976
David Clayton Hill
A needle used during lethal injections
Different needle used during injections *Note that the tip is flat, not sharp, making it more difficult and painful to puncture skin

Now for more disturbing pictures. These are all of people during their executions. But be warned, these are much more disturbing than the previous photos.
Cartoon, compare to the courtroom symbol of fairness
Firing Squad
Electric Chair
Electric Chair
Electric Chair

 

According to your first link

"The Process
# The prisoner is bound to a gurney; two needles are inserted into the prisoner's veins and a saline solution is injected.
# Sodium thiopental, an anesthetic, is injected to put the prisoner to sleep.
# Pavulon, or pancuronium bromide, is released, inducing paralysis and stopping breathing.
# Finally, the flow of potassium chloride stops the heart. This chemical can cause excruciating pain if the prisoner is still conscious."

The first puts them to sleep.

I wont nitpick anymore i swear.

I'm for the death penalty, I think death should be handed out much sooner and quicker for even more lenient things. I also wish the family's could have the choice of personally 'pulling the trigger' so to speak.

 

I feel another of my human rights rants coming on, but i'll try to leave it.
Giving a murderer an easy painless injection is bollocks, they lost all human rights when they took anothers life.

firing squad sounds good
hanging is good
electric chair looks painful
guillotine has gotta hurt
stoned to death is maybe pushing it (im ok with it in extreme cases, but society will never go for it)

That would make you think a little more carefully before you do something stupid, even 1 life saved by deterrents is better than none

 

Exactly. The rights of innocent people should always be put above those of perpetrators of serious crime. I'd go as far to say that all rapists (or attempted rapists) and murderers (assuming that the act wasn't in self-defence or justifiable in some other way) should get the death penalty. It isn't fair to risk them re-offending (or the expense of keeping them imprisoned for life).
I also think that those found in possession of child pornography should get the death penalty, whether or not they have been found to have molested/attempted to molest a child. My reasoning for this is that the risk to children from an individual in possession of child pornography is justification enough to purge them from society.

 

that is what death penalty should be, pain and suffering. like i said, murderer shoundt get the leisure of peacefull and painless death.

the step i post is from Penn and Teller Death Penalty Episode. (my favorite episode, i may add) so if they may change it since then nor there is a multiple version of the execution.

its painfull, so what? 2mm wound will not kill even if they use 7 gauge (around 4mm), it still wont kill.

also saline solution is just salt water, commonly use in hospital to keep the patient from dehydration.

sorry, i already know that. it have been mention in Penn and Teller Death Penalty episode. every lethal injection should be as pain death. that is what death penalty is all about, a punishment. death by it self isnt a punishment. but dying is. take the dying away, its death penalty become pointless.

LOL, this is the worse about human, they only see thing on sided and decide its bad, in case of david, he may or may not be guilty, and people see him as innocent man being put to death, they never remember the number of murderer who have been put down for the sake of sociality. But when a serial killer escape, the sociality blame the government for not doing their job.

i'm pretty sure david isnt the only one who being at the wrong place and the wrong time, you cant make an omelet without breaking any eggs.

also you arent doing a very good job for making me thinking lethal injection is scary, and those execution pictures, they deserve it, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Wow. I've seen some pretty retarded statements in my time on the internet, but this is something else. There are many valid arguments in favour of capital punishment, but this is just far too naive.

What use is it to deliberately inflict physical pain on someone who'll be dead in a matter of minutes? The whole idea of punishment is corrective discipline, ie harm done to discourage greater harm. Even torture has its uses, however dubious, in obtaining information. What you propose is nothing more than sick sadism, a disturbed desire for retribution. Don't delude yourself into thinking vengeance is justice. It achieves nothing.

 

same reason why people are openly punish. To let other know this is what you are going to get when you murder.

Like i said, nobody would be scared of painless death, its an ideal way to die. however everyone want to avoid slow and painful death when ever possible.

you think its sick sadism, i think its a perfect way to set example or to imply fear to others.

 

A painless death is "ideal"? Nobody's scared of it? Don't make me laugh. Death is death, and that scares people more than mere pain ever could. How do you think it'd feel to know that it was your own lapse of judgment that robbed you of your one and only chance to have and experience all that you wanted? To think that you'd never again be able to enjoy life itself?

Besides, do you really want to live in a world ruled by fear? Do you think it's right to threaten people into submission? Don't you think it'd be preferable for peace to exist out of choice? After all, history dictates that oppression often incites revolt rather than peace.

 

Punishment should always fit the crime, killing someone is not a punishment, at least not to the person killed. A far more fitting punishment would be if the murderer was forced to work on the family's behalf. Taking a life for a life solves nothing.

 

It does if they are too dangerous to be released.
Also why should the family have to pay for this persons food and lodgings for the rest of his/her life?

When its deserved, the death penalty is ok.
Murderers that rape and torture is a good example

 

The death penalty wouldn't just be punishment; it would prevent the criminal from committing any further crimes.

 

No.

Who in there right mind would willingly be around the person that killed a member of their family? I would kill the fuck.

 

`
Who said anything about being around the family? I meant that they should work and give up a large portion of their wages to the family.

 

I see now. Very confusing statement.

Either way, fuck that. Would never want money from a piece of shit. Furthermore, I would send a very strong message to the murderer. Such as wiping out his family.

 

But then you're a mass murderer.

 

Well speaking on an earlier comment about the jews and Hitler, did you know that U.S.S.R. leader Stalin killed almost 40 million of his own people during WW2. The Jews were only 6 million. He did this by taking food and supplies from the people to give to his soldiers ands burning their farms so that they would not be taken by Germany. HE also tortured and killed many for being spies and other dissidents.

 

The difference is that Stalin's actions are valid (if despicable) wartime strategies.

 

So the people who make others suffer should have to suffer? If they are being punished, at the very least make it fair for them, instead of only fair for the family and friends of the victim. Think about the friends and family of the real victim. The prisoner.

Alright, if your gonna be a smart ass you could at least get your facts straight. The step you post is from Penn and Teller Death Penalty Episode. Great. I have no idea what the rest of that sentence means after the parentheses. Seriously.

It is painful. Very painful. So what, a 2mm wound won't kill? They then get another 2mm shot. Then a sleep shot. I admit that my claim may have been wrong about the 2mm shot killing people, and I apologize, however I have heard it before.

Saline solution is just salt water, which keeps the patient from dehydration. What the hell? How is salt water supposed to keep a person hydrated? Plus, did I ask about the composure of saline solution? I don't give a damn what they're putting into people, but I do give a damn if it's injected using the largest commercially available shot.

This is really how you respond... I'm gonna have to side with tehuber1337 here. In fact, I'll quote him.

And there you have it.

LOL? LOL? What is so funny about the execution of a human being? The death? The murder? Or is it the part where he yells out in agony? Or when the blood comes out of his mouth? Oh, or maybe you find the gut wrenching joy of killing somebody hilarious. It is disgusting.
Three simply letters is all it took. You just crossed the line. Don't you dare laugh at an execution.
David wasn't, isn't, and shall not be the only one who is murdered, even though he was most likely innocent.
I'm not doing a very good job making you think lethal injection is scary? What is scary? What is wrong with you!? Don't you know that people die because of people, who die because of people who make money because it's their job!? Do you have any humane emotion in your body!? Veterinarians don't use lethal injections because they find it too cruel for the animal! What kind of world do we live in where humans are put down in ways too cruel for animals!?

Some people who agree with the death penalty disgust me. People like you go to Hell.

 

Implying that hell is real. Go back to Texas you religious effer!

That means fucker. Trying to keep it PG. ... Wait

 

Thats the most stupid comment on the full thread