creationist vs evolutionists debate, the big one.

i post here for jinja to debate. but i don't believe there is much to debate about it if you know the difference.

one explains how we become a human being while the other explains the work of god. i don't believe there is a one way route to this arguement, but maybe there are those who do.

argue away!

 

oh hey thanks for posting this, was gona get to it but didnt have time

so i know of certain schools of that attribute theories like the big bang and evolution to the work of god, effectively marrying two schools that were in conflict for the longest tome, that of evolution and creationalism. but the debate with ultra concerning existence has made me remember something very important that was told to me a long time ago. so for those who believe in god, there is no way that something fallible like science (because many spheres of science can be questioned) can be attributed to an infallible god. so if you believe in god's existence then indeed marrying the two schools is pretty impossible. so ultra you've got me on this one

 

Well, the theory of Divine Creation states the world was created in 6 days, and 1 day of rest, which is sunday, and since I'm a Catholic...I ahve to believe in this... But the theory of BIg bang really sparks my ideas, and is one the most Plausible, and the other one is the Gas theory, but most of these things are very hard to spend

 

I realize that the following post is a bit touchy, so if you'd like to complain, please read all of the following sentences with the opener, "in my opinion," Thanks.

Wow, way to be totally restricted by a religious idea. It's just impossible to believe something you actually think is true when you can follow the complete thoughts of a giant organisation.

Anything that says something magically comes from nothing doesn't seem as plausible as something scientifically proven, to me anyways.

Anyways, there's many terms that could describe my religious views; deism, apatheism, agnosticism, nihilism, etc. In the end it comes down to the fact that I have no reason to believe that there is a God acting in life, and that I have no reason to decide to follow one religion over another because they are equally baseless.

Whether or not I completely agree with Darwin's views is irrelevant to the fact that, atleast to an extent, evolution does exist. I simply can't comprehend arguing an opinion against fact in any situation.

 

Here's a good one.

Where did the Bible come from? Someone had to write it up, right? To me it sounds like some sort of huge intricate prank to me that somehow became a reality. No offense to the religious, though.

 

OK im reluctant to even post here. But since the topic has arisen...

If this post offends any one then too bad.

Evolution is obvious, there is no creationist crap. Just look at the evidence, its pisses me off that people can be so blindsided to the truth just because thier religion states otherwise. The bible has been so warped and mis-interpreted over the century's and now its really just a bastardised story that some people commit to. Much of the creation theory came about due to a lack of understanding back in the old days (remember we used to think the earth was flat..?). Also people needed some hope, they needed something that they could vent to make themselves feel better. Though in todays modern world none of this applies. We now understand and have the evidence to support evolution. Im not completely shunning the idea that theres something bigger than us out there, hell im pretty sure there is, all im saying is that there is no way everything here was created and put here. I know Christians who have happily taken on board the evolution theory and I complement them on having the intelligence to. It is unfortunately this cult side that has to push and push, despite obvious fact. Religion like this is the one biggest thing that is wrong with the world today. Sure have your beliefs but when you are presented with solid eveidence have the grace to admit that maybe your religion which is based on someones ideas and thoughts from eons ago could possibly be wrong. I fail to see why the creationist theory is even brought up anymore. Perhaps at some time they were genuine but not these days. Admit that your religion has flaws , admit that it might not be wrong. In my honest opinion if you can believe that creationism is true then you may as well believe that the world is flat, that the moon is in fact cheese and that the tide going out is because that is the time that all the fish are thirsty and need a drink. Get real people.

 

Almo, I would usually say tl;dr, but this miniature essay is amazing. Now if we can find a way to spread it...

 

Almo, that was actually a clear and pretty concise argument, and I totally agree with you. To think that some diehard religious fans out there can see evidence of evolution and still squawk about how god created the Earth is extremely ludicrous. It's understandable to believe in something, but to place all your beliefs on a book that was rewritten hundreds, possibly thousands of times in history by various people isn't going to get you any ground in the scientific community. Evolution is based on evidence, and is therefore a fact. Is there a god? Who knows? So how could god have created the universe if he might not exist? Fact vs opinion, who wins?

 

Erm, there's more to it than that, you should give the wikipedia article on it a quick scan, as I'm sure it answers your question indirectly.

Almo, you definitely bring up an agreeable opinion, and surely it's less blind to follow something scientifically proven than speculation or guess, but it's not necessarily true to say there couldn't be a God with the existence of evolutionism. The concept that they're opposites is a fallacy.

 

hmm well at the end of the day im trying to remain pretty ambivalent about this debate. because i do follow religion but the evidence of evolution is quite apparent. however both have obvious downfalls and criticisms that cant be over looked. i wont go into criticisms of creationalism because it seems to be taking alot of hits already so i will try and argue against evolution. however, one of the only plausible arguments i can think up this this moment in time is that while evolution is indeed possible, we still have to accept the fact that it is only a theory that runs congruent with alot of things. the world is not evidence for evolution, but rather we as humans have used what we observe to support the evolution argument. now because science itself is fallible and can be argued against, there is a good chance that science (just like religion some would argue) can be wrong. not long ago scientists believed the earth was flat, further back medicine used leeches as viable cures for illness, and ptatoes were believed by scientists to be poisonous. granted these were all in excess of 2 hundred years ago, but they are still products of science, an indeed fallible area of human development. therefore there is indeed a good chance that evolution could be wrong.

 

My turn again


Thats not entirely true. We now have solid proof of evolution, we have actually had it for quite a while.

There once was a white moth which lived in english forests, it was white to blend into the light tree trunks of a certian tree. When the industrial revolution got all fired up and burning of coal was prevalent, after time tree trunks began to stain black from the smog. Now all the white moths against black trees were obviously easy food for birds, and yep they were eaten. However all was not lost. Due to a genetic mutation every 2 in 1000 of the white moths were born black. Now back when the trees were white the black moths were eaten. However now that the trees were black, these genetically different moths were the ones that were left, evenetually the gene pool became black dominant instead of white.

There now no longer lives the white moth in England, but the black moth. With the technology of today and DNA we have determined that this very quick, mutatious form of evolution has created a new species.

Just a little story for you all

Evolution comes in many forms and is certainly not clean cut.

Also yes B2K it was a short mini essay, however I do have a 32 page essay somewhere outlining the theorys and all evidence to support evolution. I no longer have a digital copy unfortunately, and I dont think ill scan it in for you all to read on the count that half of you will need a (scientific) dictionary to read it lol and will just end up snoring on your keyboards

 

Winter, that's a cool litlle word, did you make it up?

 

I personally don't know what any of you guys are talking about (Or care) but y'know
Catholics are full of it and makes the Bible "Teh Shiznit" and actually they make stuff up thats not even in the Bible and people still believe them. Meanwhile the Protestants actually try not to be total jerks and believe the whole "We were created by God" deal, which is what I believe and I don't care what the science says and B2K: Bible was created by many people mostly God's disciples and they were proven to actually live.

 

well i dont what so hard to belive in theory of evolution.

Theory of evolution is derrive from facts, DNA relation and logical deduction while The bible is nothing more then a story of Snow White...sure there is holes in Theory of Evolution, but please remind your self this, we uncover the history of the earth and ancient creature via fossil, and fossil can only be form under certain condition are meet, and alot of creature from ancient earth which fail to meet the condition to become a fossil is lose, hance those missing link in the evolution three.....unless we can build a time machine that allow us to travel to the past and study them, the Theory of Evolution will never been completed and it will be full of holes because lack of evidence.

On the other hand, sure you can belive in god because it cant be proven or disproven, but god is only as real as you belive in it, just like boogyman, bloody mary, Dark Magician Girl, Snow White and many other make belive creature. Think for your self for a moment and you will see that god didnt created human, it was human created god....if you are still in doubt, take a moment and think for this question, I belive Snow White is god, can you prove otherwise? can you provide "Solid" prove that the god mention in your bible is not Show White her self?

now that I provided a good example how questionable the existance of god, but dont take it the wrong way, i didnt said is wrong to be in a religon, afterall no one religon teach bad stuff, if you understand it well, all the religon have only one purpose, to keep people from doing bad stuff, remind our self, during the old time, where no such thing as Law. So What religon really do is to keep people controlable, each religon have thier way of saying what would happen to you after your death IF you are Sin, or bad guy, after all no one person on earth can provide solid prove what would happen after you died afteralll God is all knowing and there is no escape from the God, so by using this doubt, religon control and unite people by having faith.

 

Science is something that anyone with sufficient evidence and arguments could question an already established theory or law.

What does this mean? That means it can grow, change, alter, and develop endlessly.

Religion once had their followers stone to death non-believers, witches, those who work on Sundays, anyone who eats crabs, those with long hair, those who do not invite strangers into their home to entertain them... ect...

It's a set of laws that can never be changed and is constantly misinterpreted. Therefore it cannot be infallible.

Science doesn't claim to be absolute. Any theory can change. Laws are a bit tougher though... like the law of gravity... can you toss something into the air and it will never return down? Not likely... unless you can find a repeatable, observable, and/or recordable piece of evidence, it won't be good enough to overturn it.

Course, science could just do what religion does. My daughter is a good cook, great cleaner, and is just old enough to bare children. How much should I sell her for slavery?

 

after the renassiance, religion (specifically christianity and catholic religion) have been steadily losing their grip as the world's religion, the only reason its still around is because A. It's pretty much the United States official religion....although they don't actually say it, its pretty obvious i.e. the dollar bill E pluribus unim or whatever that latin was, "in god we trust" is written on every bill the US makes... and B. people don't get the same satisfaction they used to, way back when, people relished the "fact" that god was always watching them, and it made them feel important, though they were most likely not, it gave them hope, meaning, etc. now, you know that camera's are always watching you, you can go do that american idol crap, or some reality tv show, i.e. big brother, and know that people are watching you, and you get the feeling of being important, that people are watching YOU.
basically, science (technology) is killing religion, it will only be a matter of time...
I'm actually athiest, not that I get any feeling of importance, subconsciously, but I just can't imagine the entire universe being created in 6 days, and being only a few ten thousand years old at most, when studies show that the earth is over 200 million years old

thats really all I have to say

 

A word to the not so wise: Be careful with what you post in this topic, I've read a lot of stuff that is most offensive. Like I said before, it's never a good idea to debate about religion because no matter how much you think you know, your still not right. Just watch what you say.

 

Yes it may be offensive but hey life is offensive, If you cant deal with a few simple posts which may contradict any religion you follow then perhaps you shouldn't be here. Also people have their right to believe what they want, no particular theory is right or wrong, as you said, its a matter of opinion. If you believe so strongly in your particular religion then hearing other people shoot it down shouldn't matter because, after all, its your religion. I have never written in any of my posts (though I may have suggested it) that anyone should change their beliefs, I simply stated solid facts which do not agree with many religions. I dont agree with people trying to preach their religion, if you want to waste your lives following a book that was written, changed and rewritten so many times then thats your choice, but don't sit there and say my scientific facts are offensive because to be completely honest I don't fucking care. Denial is a an epidemic, quote me on that.

 

"Denial is an epidemic." ~ Almo

Quoted.

A word to the wise also! I get horribly offended when I'm condemned to the absolute worst place in the minds of christians each time I open my mouth about this topic. If I so much as disagree with God's hair color, I am to spend the rest of eternity in eternal torture... all because a Christian got offended? Well offense is spread all over in topics like these.

Not just Christians of course, but hell is a far more recognizable torment since this topic is mainly on Christianity.

 

Wow man, it looks like your getting upset with me because I'm saying your "scientific facts are offensive" I'm just trying to say not only us Agnostics are in here reading this. I don't believe in god, I haven't for years, and I don't plan on doing so. Does it surprise you that an Agnostic is trying to defend the way people act on here? Sometimes people can go too far on how they're trying to explain what they think.