Racial slurs, labels & connotations: Are they still a big deal nowadays?

Because of an incident involving LittleKill posting something that I felt was inappropriate on my "Male rape" debate topic, seph suggested that I put up a thread that discusses racial slurs, remmarks, labels & connotations seperately from the other. So here it is.

I am also very much interested to your responses to this thread & what others may think of these views we all have.

But a word though, I hope me putting up this thread doesn't spark flame wars or general member bashing as this topic is a bit sensitive. So please, if you can't post anything constructive or you just can't keep your racist thoughts to yourself, please walk away right now.

And since it can be classified under this topic, acceptance/tolerance of homosexuality can also be discussed here.

To begin with, I want to ask you guys about the impact of the words/labels associated with people with dark toned skin complexions. Does the word "Black" offend you if it is used as an adjecive to refer to a person or group of persons, both intentionally &/or jokingly? I myself find it hard when to tell if the context is meant to joke or to offend, especially in the forum, as written conversation is a bit emotionless & even emoticons seem to not help in some cases.

 

One work that has always bothered me is the word nigger. It's not when I hear it that bothers me, it's when my black friend says "Sup my niggers?" and then I say the same thing and get scorned (not from the people I'm talking to, usually from a nosy eavesdropper). To me, calling someone with black or darker skin "black" is a lot less degrading than calling them African American. Not all Americans from Africa are black, and they arn't a special kind of American, they're American. It's a frustrating double standard.

Many things like this get to me. It really gets under my skin and worries me about the future of America (Yes, I will be talking from an American standpoint about America because it's all I know. Sorry) when I hear someone say "It's cause I'm black" and mean it.

Not to get off topic, it relates in a weird sort of way, but I also can't help but feel a certain degree of nativism when I hear stores can't have Christmas trees or say Merry Christmas because someone from another country moved here and was offended. Am I nonsensitive towards these people and in the wrong for wanting to keep the values I was born with or am I right? Personally, I know if a store wished me a happy haunaka I wouldn't be offended, I would just take it for what it is, something different, but not necessary wrong.

 

The only word that could actually be offensive to me (an otherwise run-of-the-mill citizen with no immediately obvious differences from the general, local public, excluding the following and what it would imply) would be the use of "fag" (or anything similar in meaning) in an negative, insulting manner (as I'm aware that the word has other meanings elsewhere). Still, I don't make a big deal of it - it's something that I still, however, find disheartening, as I view it as an attack upon my person, even if it was not intended as such.

I usually like to think that words are meaningless until interpreted, that nothing in a language is inherently "bad" but has come to have a meaning that makes it bad, but my more recent experiences have shown that it's not entirely difficult to come up with an insult and that insults can be found even in otherwise meaningless phrases for others.

I've a friend from Germany that I've known for years, and recently some complete ass-hat went around calling him a Nazi. Me, I think the kid is just being annoying, but my friend is having a hell of a time coping with it, and I quite frankly can never come to understand something like that, to experience unadulterated hate or dislike from a group of people who don't even know you, but are still able to fling about words that, to the insulted party, are really destructive, but to everyone else sound just like a random statement.

Maybe this is all a result to just some wishful thinking (and a bit of personal evolution on my part, but to a lesser extent), but I haven't really been ever involved in blatant racism or such - where I live, it's almost like a state-wide event when someone actually different comes by, so it's been interesting to have some foreign exchange students in our school and view both direct and indirect hate and slurs.

 

@Deathbreak911: Man I thought that was just a plot from South Park, but really? Just because some religious tradition of a certain group contradicts another it shouldn't be banned, not unless it involves human sacrifice or orgies, instead it should just be left alone so as non followers can atleast see what the hubbub is.

Acceptance & recognition of something should come first for people to understand something, otherwise mis-understanding & hate will follow.

@nine: We really can't stop people from forming groups & cliques as it's our nature to find others of similar stature or interests, however what we can lessen is the act of labeling others outside our circle. Educating people & interacting with others "different" from our circles does help, but there will always be others who just have thick skulls & closed minds & hearts who'll find sick enjoyment in hurting others

 

i dont really understand racial slurs....... like the term "Nigger" and there is a whole episode in south park dedicated to that term and i just dont get it how it is so offensive...... another one is the term "Jap", i offen use it to refer to japan as short and people said that term is offensive.... without any kind of explaination......

 

Well it's really hard to explain Cal, these Racial labels were a result of years of opression, as in the case of the origin of the "N" word. It was used as a label to refer to the ancestors of todays African Americans in the US (I have no intention to offend guys). Who, at one point were slaves & therefore were treated us lower than the whites (God I hate explaining this, it makes me feel like I'm being Racist). In time the "N" word took on a meaning that equals an insult which to this day is.

The same is true with other racial labels as Chinks, Japs & the like, they were terms coined not only to label a minority, but as an insult to them as well.

 

Basically how I see it if you hit some person who says a racist word you don't like your a idiot. You deserve to go to jail for assault. I don't see why you would just get in a rage and attack someone cause someone said the word "nigger" "cracker" etc.

tl:dr your a moron for hitting someone over a word.

 

everybody is alittle racist and having a racist though is normal once in a while.

 

Well saying it directed at someone sure is different than saying it in a light humorous manner. But then again, even if saying a racist word jokingly, when misread also tends to recieve negative results.

 

My father happens to be German. When I was in highschool, I swear the other kids used the words Nazi and Hitler like they were my nicknames. It bothered me for a long time, until I came to the conclusion that anyone that would honestly believe that or would just hate me for the reason that my father was from a different country is stupid. As time passed, I just learned to ignore it because they were obviously idiots.

Just to help explain what I've seen over the years. Parents play a HUGE role in this. Any spec of racism hinted at by a parent, will surely be picked up by their children. Mixing racism with the bluntness of children is a terrible recipe.

 

you also need to remember that any one from any race is the same as any other and if you go to far to try and be pc you can end up offending that person far worse by pussy footing round subjects because you think it may offend someone if you slip up.

i live on a small island and nearly the entire population is white, so i did not have much experience talking to those of other races.
but i now work with a black lady and i spent ages trying to be so pc it offended her more as i always said before anything "I'm not being racist but" or other sayings like it before anything a bit edgy.
after a staff do we had a really good talk and she said that trying not to offend her was worse and she rather i not go around subjects. she knows who she is and is proud of it.

also people have so many backgrounds these days that trying to find the correct term can be more offensive to someone so white people are white, people with dark skin are black and you also have Asians if you go in any deeper you risk offending heritage.

all you need to remember is don't be a dick and treat all people the way you would normally

 

Good insight equity thanks

So can I safely say that, if you can't find any other words to use other than black, white, brown whatever just say it, as long as you have no intention to actually offend people, did I get it right?

And if someone who happens to hear you or reads what you said, it's entirely up to them if they find it offensive or not?

 

yeah if there is no offense in your voice or body language or manner then what is there to take offense of

 

But the problem is, you can't always apply that in every scenario, like here in the forum. How can we tell if someone is intending to offend or not? With the regulars like us, we kinda have grown accustomed to each other & kinda get a hint if one of us is "playing" or not, but with some new people that's not quite easy.

Oh & atleast, this time I'll be ready for LittleKill, his randomness won't affect me anymore, same goes for elk2007, his arrogance tactics won't piss me off that much anymore

 

well that's the problem with text is that you can't sense the tone of the words, but it is important to look at what they are saying as a whole.
also you don't need to get bothered by what people say, if its truly offensive then say something but if its just you think it has the potential to be offensive to someone let it go, if someone does take offense they can defend them selves.

little kill is funny, he is not to be taken seriously as he is a wind up merchant and is looking for a reaction most of the time.
and elk is a very intelligent person but with that he is very opinionated and not open to the opinion of others unless they can bring an extreme intellectual debate and can back up there argument with something of real sustenance and not just personal belief.

 

It's still a big deal.Won't want another conflict similar to 'Hotel Rwanda' case between Hutus and Tutsis.

 

That's the thing that erks me most... You said Chink and Jap but you can't say Nigger even when explaining the organ of the word?!? And how does explaining the past make you feel racist? If my teacher is teaching us about this time, are they racist? What makes you shun away from talking about the more bitter parts of the past? We bought + captured slaves from Africa, ported them to Europe and the US, the US men were very mean and treated the slaves sub-human and called them Negros and later called them Niggers as a deragotory term. I don't feel racist at all for saying any of that.. It was information, I wasn't saying anything bad and neither were you.

Here's a question, though. If you were talking about WWII and the Nazi's and what they did to Jews and all of that stuff would you feel like you were being racist too, or is it just one of the many double standards that society has?
[/rant]

Sorry for bad spelling, I'm not on my computer and thus don't have my spellchecker built into my browser.

 

I believe that the problem does not only lie in the racial undertones that these words have, but more on the stigma of the actual words themselves. The word "nigger" evolved from a general and "publicly-accepted" word to describe someone of African origin to a taboo that is deemed highly offensive. As such, it becomes a sensitive issue where people of African origin have gotten "accustomed" to these words after years and years of segregation, while the Caucasian population is doing away with it. That's what sums it up for me, anyways.
Notice how I sidestepped the words "Black" and "White", there? >.>

 

but black and white are the terms used, not all black people are from Africa, i don't know whether you realize that but its true
and nigger or negro was a derogatory term in the first place

 

@eathbreak911:

I didn't mean to offend when I used the words "chink" & "Jap", if you read what I said, I said...

..."The same is true with other racial labels as Chinks, Japs & the like, they were terms coined not only to label a minority, but as an insult to them as well."

What I meant there was explaining to Calvin_0 that those words were coined or was brought about, just like how "nigger" was, from a historical event that serves as an insult to the race those words were associated with.

I don't disagree with what you're saying that we shouldn't hold back teaching the origin of a word to people because that will help them better understand what the offending word is, which "hopefully" will make people do the right thing & not use them altogether.

I got to be honest though, the process of teaching the origins of these words so we don't ever use them in the wrong way isn't working.

Take for example Datanotfound's post. Because the children in his school learned in history how the Nazi's were a group of Germans who killed millions of people who believe in the Hebrew faith (note that I didn't use "jews"), the kids associate all German people as nazis, so that German classmate of his got bullied because of his race.

Same goes with the term nigger, because kids learn that the African Americans in the USA were originally brought as slaves, they see that as a reason to feel supremist.

Oh & equity is correct, aside from the use of the word "Black" to refer to African Americans, it is actually used to refer to any person or group of people who have dark toned skin, my people is one of them.