Jesus Loves Me (A religious discussion: Hardcore Atheists steer clear!)

Apparently, Jesus...he loves me.

I'm so bored. So god dam bored, fucking sick of my solitude, and spent last night cold and locked out of the house, banging on the door until 7AM for someone to let me in. So, I'm pretty desperate for anything social. And for my sins, They gave me something.

God. That's God, not god, you sacrilege. "Hey, you want to go to church?" I had to think about Their offer. Err, His offer...OK, just his.

Starved for social anything and I'm offered god. Shit. I'm no religious guy. I don't believe in any kind of higher power. I don't even like conventional morality. But, is this the answer to my boredom and desperation? ...Fuck.

So, we drive into Michigan to go to what this guy calls a mega-church. I'm living with him now, so I should be nice, but man is this fucker crazy. He sees only two colors: black and white. Shadows are blinding to him. He wants to own a gun and is literally afraid because of recent laying off of many cops. (Something like 80.) He and his brother always lock the door at night because they think someone might break in. That's how I made the mistake of going at midnight and I know he feels bad for that. He's said I shouldn't even go outside at night because it's a bad neighborhood. It really isn't. It's nice. But he can't see the night; it's black. He, of coarse, is white.

This should be self evident: he's a republican.

We get there, and I have to say... Mega-church was right. The only thing I can liken walking in there to is like walking into a museum. I actually wonder if we will need to buy tickets.

There is an auditorium, where we soon would be for the service, several rooms groups could meet, I even see a Wii, and several of these rooms--maybe all--has a space for a band to play music. Holy fucking shit: music. Crap, what did I walk into?

Eventually, we go into the auditorium for the service. There are a good number of large screens throughout the room. They're just showing random shit about christianity currently, but they'll show the stage later. A band is setting up on stage. Am I at a concert or saturday service? Wait, I thought christians went to service on sunday...

Lights dim. The band starts playing. Oh fuck, I actually have to admit...I'm enjoying the song. They're not singing, just melodic, well played rock. And believe me, I know my rock. This is good. The drums compliment the piece incredibly well and the base is turned up so when the drummer pounds on his instrument, you feel it, Jesus thumps, in your chest.

But soon, it's time for the band to stop playing. A video of Tony Bliar. Oh wait, that's Blair. Sorry, I'm still a little burnt for all the higher-ups lying about intel for the Iraq war. Then, a lady comments on the video and a little is said about what's happening with the church.

"Now let's all stand up and shake the person next you to you's hand..." Fuck no. I'm not at one of those everyone-should-hug-and-kiss places, am I? "...and make this church a friendlier place." Oh god, wtf? OK, the lady in front of me wants to shake my hand so I stand. Oh, there's a guy behind me. Geez, has his really made the place friendlier? I don't feel any closer to the girl in front or the guy in back. And that's saying something since I just snuck in an orgy reference.

Then music starts playing. Oh shit, it was a trap! We're all standing now, and obligated to clap, so the music can take greater affect in mind-washing us! The song isn't so good now, though. And here comes Jesus, or some Jesus made of lyric and poetry. Cliche crap, too. Christian rock is always so generic, not really pertaining to anything that actually makes sense. And I often think it's rhetoric is not even christian. And they can't be specific. Just like love songs can't be.

A love song writer needs to make it generic so it applies to everyone, and needs to glorify it to fit the media perspective so people will listen. They're not really talking about love at all. If I wrote a love song, I'd steal the lyrics of "My Girl" by The Temptations [1], only played in the genre of misery rock [2]. Fucking metal. The songs I hear are always talking about love, but not asking what it is, why this person is love-worthy, reasons one loves this person, or anything. I feel love songs objectify love and the person being loved.

I feel christian rock songs are love songs.

Although, let me go off on a tangent. (As if I'm not already on one.)
I think we need to break love into two words: especially like and care for, and the sickness. Because I love my friends. I deeply care for them. But that's not the same love I feel for certain very special women. A more sick way of caring that much for someone. But can I feel both kinds for the same person. The two, and maybe more, kinds of love are not even comparable. I think the sick one is hormonal; an emotional attraction to the opposite sex.

Back to the rock:
Everyone is clapping. Even the guy I came with, though he has terrible rhythm. I think I remember reading in Rant by Chuck Palahniuk that clapping and shit like that happens at the same pace the brain cycles, so clapping in unison synchronizes all our brains. Then, Jesus comes and does silly things to us while we're too hypnotized to notice. Or Something.

The same way I think love songs are brainwashing, dishonest, and ignorant of what really is love, I think these songs are. I can't remember any particular lyrics, but I've never heard christian rock that seemed especially deep or understanding when it comes to god. It's like they assume everyone already has this deep, profound connection to the philosophy, so it's not their job to voice any opinions. But, if they did voice any opinions, it wouldn't be generic, some people would disagree, and they wouldn't be popular. Maybe their popularity more likely relies on being ignorant of anything deeper than god is good and Jesus is a cool dude.

Inversely, the priest seems allowed to say anything he wants about the bible. The song is over and he's dissecting a part of the new testament, as opposed to the old testament (or as we Jews call it, the bible), really bashing on materialism and making plans without god's consent.

He's talking about how our quest for material things detracts us from our quest for god. Also about how we try to make plans, but god has to will us to do them. For example, in the passage, this guy was talking about how he'd go to a town, trade, and be one rich bitch. But does he ask god? Oh, no! So Paul, or whoever, bitch slaps him philosophically and we all learn our lesson. Or something.

The thing is, I agree being overly materialistic is bad, and I believe the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry, but why is it we can't learn these lessons without god? Why is it god has anything to do with them? Couldn't even an atheist (me) be happy without materialism and realizing catastrophe despite plans?

Though, I would like to note, he never actually said, through his microphone, on the many TVs, to the audience sitting in very comfortable movie-theatre seats, and the people videotaping him, that materialism was bad. That's just me gnawing at his words.

Once it's all over, after another song, we're leaving, and I see people holding bags out. They're so people can throw their coffee and pop and shit into. It was just interesting to me. In a Jewish temple, you would never see food in the synagogue, where we held services. I think it'd be sacrilegious. We have to say a prayer to bless our food before eating it. Part of kosher. Though, I don't think many Jews do this, really, and being an anti-materialist, I don't see why we or god should care. But, all middle-eastern religions seem to be materialistic ones. Sure, they ask you drop your pager, turn off your TV, and stop buying new cars, but they're really only asking you to replace them with THEIR materials. The (probably poorly translated) bible, the church, and in some cases: magic underwear.

The rest of the evening wasn't so thought provoking. We drove home, went to a Mexican restaurant with a friend (more of an acquaintance to me), and had some actually interesting religious discussions, if you're willing to admit they can exist. For example: This guy disbelieves that hell is a place of torture and pain, but rather a place of crucification. Purification. And the body is a material thing, so it does not exist in hell or heaven, so pain in the way we think of it could not be. Same with pleasure. The heaven we often imagine is a material one.

I think it's still a load of shit and have rational arguments to fight with, but until I know him better, I won't risk aggravating him too much.

We also talked about how christian schools are no good for making christians or people. Then we left there and discussed CG in movies, Star Wars, and the recent Terminator and X-Men movies. We had some Baskin Robbins and went home.

But, the whole reason I did this was because I was really--yes--that bored and lonely. And you know what? This may be hard to believe, but I enjoyed it! A lot of people have such strong stigma against religion that they tense up, become disagreeable, and angry at its presence in conversation. Fucking relax. People see badness in religion and claim religion is bad. It actually might be, but cut the rebel shit out. It's not all bad and sometimes actually has something good to say! And if you'll simply let yourself be around it without accepting Jesus into your life as your personal lord and savior, you might at least enjoy the people you're with.

Am I forgetting something? Oh yeah! Jesus. He loves me man? But what does that mean? It didn't come up today, but I thought about it a good deal.

references
[1] "My girl": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRwmgYEUr8
[2] a) misery rock example: http://www.unpiano.com/music/wp-content/music/htrk/ha.mp3
b) from this page: http://unpiano.com/music/2009/03/27/htrk/

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

....A bit hard to understand at first, but I ...kinda understand...

Hard to understand because, well it's on and off, something great happens and then, it's taken away...

I'm no full on religious person myself, but I get comfort in just believing in something, I once put all of my faith into a friend...but now I lost them, I won't go the details here...


But I'm still into full blown metal, love songs or anything resembling love is a lie to me (even techno, after the day life changed I went off anything with doof doof unless it's from a game), the happiest sorts are songs like "indestructible" from disturbed, because they endow you with power to do anything provided you got to do it...

As for being locked out, that is why I poses more than one key, if all of them failed one day, there is the closed garage door...and my car being the key...if the remote dies...well it would have to open, my folks are rather protective about any sort of damage to my car...

Whether your being serious or not (I thought yours was a joke at first...no offence) but I am serious.

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

Good post, good content, good point. You have my official seal of approval.

As a Christian myself, I have to say I don't think I would have enjoyed the church you went to. And church with giant TV's preaching against materialism just feels.... wrong to me. But I guess I haven't dedicated my life to learning the words of the bible, so I'm not one to judge.

I donno, maybe I'm a sounding like a hippie but shouldn't Christianity be more about love/Christ combo instead of donating to a church? I donno...

There are so many ideas out there that they are very much alike the internet they create, you have to wade through tons of shit to find what you really want, but sometimes what you want doesn't work, and some of the "shit" behind you is golden. There almost isn't a win, just a contentment that can be found.

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

Hey, don't be like that! There is love in a true sense represented in the media, it's just hard to find and not mainstream. Maybe it really doesn't exist, but that's still not a problem. We have to make it. We have to write books, write songs, and make movies demonstrating what we consider the truth. My truth isn't your truth, and your truth isn't their truth. But we need to all get out there expressing our own ideas, not letting the big corps control the public with their idealist rhetoric!

I have a spare key now. They got one while I was asleep since I went to bed the moment I got in.

Everything I say is a joke. Well, that's a lie. I really don't make jokes and don't really think I'm funny but I try to be humorous. But, the whole reason I decided to come home and write this was a one-liner you probably just glanced over. Jesus thumps!

But, my humor is the most serious thing about me.

Oh goody! That's what I was going for! Now I can sleep easily...if only I could sleep.

I mentioned slight feelings about the music being brain-washing devices. I didn't really want to go full into that in the story, but there are energies you can pick up by being in the environment. You can feel the drums thump (Jesus thumps), sometimes even the singers are felt in your chest. It feels like that makes the message more powerful, but as I did note in the story, the message is crap. That's why it's so popular, I think. I wonder if people think things like "I can feel Jesus' warmth" or "I feel holy" or such BS.

The truth is, listening to rock gives one that energy and the church is just stealing that feeling and re-branding it "the love of god."

So, it really is about love/Christ, but there's something fucked up about love/Christ. It's easily manipulatable.

I think religion should be about people being good people.

PS: I'm actually thinking Jesus Thumps should have been the title... oh well.

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

I guess some of my songs have a bit of love, after all, all the bands I listened too would have put in some love and care to make it work soo well...

I guess I gotta work harder than what ever crap is thrown at me in order for a more peaceful life, instead of letting it pin me down...

Good post dude, btw catholic, but I learnt christian's are some of the nicest people around, I guess jesus or god shines thru them everyday, it's why they are always smiling...

Never met a devout catholic before I guess...



Oh well, good meaningful post, unexpected here, but that's what makes it so interesting...guess I'm gonna have to add brian head welch's book to my psp now and read that more often

(He was a guitarist for my all time band, Korn, who found god and saved himself, book is called "save me from myself" I believe)

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

That "church" sounds pretty fishy to me. It may be at worst a cult as loony said, or at best a "for-profit" donate-til-salvation church. And I agree with your approach towards overly religious people. You shouldn't outright reject them or berate them, as most people on the internet would have you believe. Instead, you should just be nice and forget about trying to argue with them and vice versa. Maybe some light discussion is warranted, but really, don't be an ass. Keep the flames on the internet .

Great post and a great read, btw

 

Re: Jesus Loves Me

This thread might invite atheists into a bashing spree so I'll fix up the title for you.

 

He he he. They will come in greater numbers now. The harpoons.... they will be useless

 

What's the difference? As far as I can tell: popularity.

Cahos Rahne Veloza: I would like to invite them into the debate, though! But, you're probably right. They won't read the story, will they?

 

Even though not ALL religion is BAD. All religion is the ignorance of scientific evidence. When you endorse religion or allow it to exist, you are allowing truly evil people the ultimate enabler for any act.

Why did I steal all the donation money? God wants me to.

Why am I a muslim and why did I kill all those Christians? God wanted me to.

Why did I attack foreign nations with the intent of killing innocent people? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO.


Religion allows for people to support ANYTHING they want simply because of God. An entity that has no real impact on our day to day lives.

As soon as you say religion isn't detrimental to the progression of mankind then you are supporting all that religion is cause for and capable of.

We do not need a over and over again conflicted centuries old non fiction story to tell us that we shouldnt kill, but should indeed rape, conquer, and profit through mindless followers.



Religion back then, when it was first invented, and yes religion is a man-made invention, was alright and actually helped progress our societies further but in this day and age when people are smart enough and aware enough of the world around us, we do NOT need Religion NOR should we support it.

 

I had an interesting discussion with SplinterOfChaos today, and he's managed to prove my views wrong. The fact is (especially regarding religion) there is usually a moderate middle ground to take. Religion was never meant to have a black-and-white viewpoints, especially since the true meaning of the bible itself has been lost in translation into other languages.

Religion should always be taken with a grain of salt, but it should never be used to define your life at all. Unfortunately, many religious people as well as organizations misunderstand their religion and do so anyway, which is the reason why religious organizations become a distorted form of their faith.

 

I agree with you, except that I believe no religious organizations today are pure.

 

So your witchcraft cult isn't evil?
Unorganised religions are very likely to be evil as they can be illegal which means they kill and stuff

 

So why not think that about Muslims? If you say that then you should rethink some of your previous posts

 

Then I will leave you making that comment, maybe someday you'll look back and regret

 

There's really no reason to argue about religion.

Anyone with a brain should be able to determine that the world today would be a better place if people laid down their bibles and starting treating people how they wanted to be treated.